Spanish 21

[Drums5000]

I have Katrina Walker's book and was wondering if it is still valid with all the info that it gives? If I were to follow it (Use HiLo) and use all the charts in it (BS, Indices, etc) is it good for an 8D, S17, No Redouble game? Is there anything that I should change or add?

Thanks

[Freightman]

Be careful on a sp21 8d game. Be doubly careful if the pen is lousy. Be triple careful if there is not a redouble feature. Spanish can be very lucrative - it does require a strong bankroll. I would think that Katarinas book is the best one out there on the subject. If you are just starting to play it, I would make mental note of various hands and reread the appropriate subject matter. As well, I would reread the subject matter on a continuous basis so that the strategy becomes second nature. If you try to apply bj basic to Spanish, you'll get hammered, played well, Spanish, in addition to being lucrative, can be a lot if fun.

[Dog Hand]

Be careful on a sp21 8d game. Be doubly careful if the pen is lousy. Be triple careful if there is not a redouble feature.<snip>

Freightman,

Drums5000 said the game is S17: such games never have redouble, because the combination of S17 and redouble in Sp21 is positive off-the-top.

Hope this helps!

Dog Hand

[Freightman]

Freightman,

Drums5000 said the game is S17: such games never have redouble, because the combination of S17 and redouble in Sp21 is positive off-the-top.

Hope this helps!

Dog Hand

Interesting - just checked Katarina's charts and redoubling comments. Couldn't find that limitation in her notes. As well, if I read her charts correctly, off the top HE was not positive, though it was substantially less than H17. I could be missing something. The only SP game in my general area is H17 - alas - just switched to CSM. Accordingly, my SP days are at an end in my general area.

In any event, always like your sim analysis. One of my favorites had to be the lucky lucky scenario.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

Basically, Katarina Walker's book is simply too primitive.

It is a fine introduction though.

There is a coterie of AP's who readily exploit the game

(mostly 8 deck S17) and have developed powerful counts

and betting ramps via our own software.

For a low stakes grinder SP21 is especially exploitable as

high stakes SP21 simply does NOT exist, except for one

Canadian casino.

In a world where playable BJ opportunities are continually

eroding, some games are hardly discussed.

[duanedibley]

Pro Tip: Count the Ace as -2. You now have a balanced count, so you can use an IRC of 0. Just add 4 to all the indices in the book. This will get you a nice improvement, and it's also easier in my opinion.

[moo321]

Yep, count the Ace -2. The cat's pretty much out of the bag on this one, so I'm ok with it being posted. The Ace is your bet card, the EOR is 2-3 times that of the ten. And Tthree is correct that side-counting and other esoteric strategies DO pay some dividends in Spanish, unlike a blackjack shoe game.

[Banjoclan]

So is the book worth getting?


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[seriousplayer]

Her count is obsolete but the other info is good. All that fancy counting that they say isn't worth it in BJ pays big dividends in SP21. Someone designing an ace reckoned count will have to decide on strong BC or strong PE or have to compromise on both. Side counting aces in an ace neutral count is the least you should be doing to avoid these compromises. The best SP21 counts are extremely creative. This game is not for the keep it simple crowd. If you lived in that camp and never developed the skills necessary to employ more complicated counting techniques you may have to go into training to develop some new skills.

Can you be more specific of what count you actually recommend? Because Hi-lo used in SP21 is an unbalanced count.

[seriousplayer]

In the "Big Book of Blackjack" Arnold Snyder mention that "You can get a small advantage on Spanish 21 with card counting bet, but you need a relatively huge betting spread." So how big of an advantage could a player get?

[ZenMaster_Flash]

What you may not know:

Three's post #12 is priceless.

[seriousplayer]

Moo's advice of counting the ace as -2 is the easiest and strongest transition for a Hilo counter into Sp21. It is called Secret Monkey Count. The adding of this to the ace balances the count and REALLY helps BC. Of course PE is really screwed but a version that keeps a balanced count of ace -2 and the 2 and 3 as +1, and another count with the 4, 5 and 6 as +1 and the T as -1 gives great PE and BC. Add the 2 counts for betting advantage decisions and you have Secret Monkey Count. Most playing decisions are based on the main count but some are better based on the combined count. A further tweak is to add the 9 as -1 and either the 7 as +1 or the 5 as +2 to the main count. I like the 7 and think level one counters would be more comfortable with the 7 thus keeping all but the ace as a level 1 count tags. The ace is counted as -2 in all these variants of Hilo for SP21. Only one variant has the 5 as a +2 count tag.

Is the betting strategy made by converting the running count to true count in Spanish 21? Since yous said most playing decision are based on the main count it makes me think that true conversion is not required.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

seriousplayer,

I am assuming that this is a serious question. L O L

"Is the betting strategy made by converting the running count to true count in Spanish 21?
Since yous said most playing decision are based on the main count it makes me think that true conversion is not required."

Using several counts is akin to adjusting your regular True Count via Side-Counts for betting and playing purposes.

So ... of course you must True Count and often adjust that T.C.