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    Senior Member MJGolf's Avatar
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    Civil Forfeiture laws under attack even in conservative state

    It's about TIME!!

    Link: www.oklahoman.com/oklahoma-city-state-senator-wants-drug-money-forfeiture-law-changed-to-protect-innocent/article/5420123?gcs=true



    What's amazing are the statistics that the vast majority of forfeitures don't involve ANY charges being filed.........maybe the tide is turning?
    "Women and cats will do as they please, and Men and dogs should just relax and get used to the idea" --- Robert A. Heinlein

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    Senior Member metronome's Avatar
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    Conservative states tend to be big on property rights. I think that civil forfeiture went unnoticed by most of the public until recently.
    Jon Oliver's show and other TV specials made people more aware.
    The tide is turning.
    I am not a lawyer, but I can't imagine how civil forfeiture can be constitutional given that the 5th amendment clearly states that no one will be deprived of their property without due process of law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MJGolf View Post
    What's amazing are the statistics that the vast majority of forfeitures don't involve ANY charges being filed.........maybe the tide is turning?
    I can't agree more!

    It is a shame one of these cases (illegal seizures) didn't make it to the supreme court.
    Luck is nothing more than probability taken personally!

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    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    That's not what the 5th amendment says. Please, people, stop posting abbreviated versions of law.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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    Without looking I believe it simply mentions due process of law. Just looking at Amendments to decide what they mean is tricky. They are all very clear but you have over 200 years of Supreme Court rulings that can tell you the obvious language in fact means almost the opposite of what is so obvious to anyone reading it.

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    I posted the relevant part; I don't think the paraphrase was out of context. Yes, SCOTUS ruled civil forfeiture constitutional, but that was in a 5-4 spit decision with a sharp dissent. Today's court may rule differently.

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    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    People quoting the Constitution tend to leave out words, like: "without just compensation". IANAL and don't want a political discussion. I'm just saying that we have a court system to make these adjudications and such issues are not as simple as many try to express. We may not agree with those decisions. But, when you look at the Constitution, you have to look at every word.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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    Senior Member Bodarc's Avatar
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    Just as Bill Clinton did. Look at every word.
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    May the cards fall in your favor.

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    Senior Member MJGolf's Avatar
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    Thanks for the alternate links Dieter. Didn't know the primary was password protected. But the editorial page.........also felt that the local law enforcement over-reacted to the proposed bill way too much. Which is good; considering how conservative our paper normally is.

    Link: newsok.com/rhetoric-aside-discussion-about-civil-asset-forfeiture-is-worth-having/article/5419527

    "Women and cats will do as they please, and Men and dogs should just relax and get used to the idea" --- Robert A. Heinlein

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    Police efforts and concerns are only focused on the funds being diverted from the seizing party to help people recover from the influence of the drug trade by rehabilitating those that engage in the abuse of drugs. This opposition shows that they are corrupt and seizing innocent peoples assets for their own gain and also don't care about being part of a solution rather than enabling illegal drug trade by driving up prices due to enforcement efforts thereby making the trade more profitable and serious crime associated with it more prevalent. It would be all I would need to see as a legislator to know this bill must pass to reign in corrupt police activity. The people responsible for enforcement should never benefit from proceeds from overzealous enforcement. This is just a known recipe for corruption that is off the charts. The police agency fighting so hard specifically against making sure the enforcing arm does not benefit from the proceeds associated with enforcement is basically a confession that his agency has been corrupted and is corrupt.

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    Norm, here's the text of the 5th Amendment:

    "No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

    The 5th Amendment applies against the Federal Government. And here is the relevant part of the 14th Amendment, which applies against the states:

    "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

    I'm just curious about why you think this was misquoted earlier. I'm discussing this as a matter of search and seizure law, which is relevant to APs, who may face having their bankrolls seized, and not to spout personal political opinions on what the law should be.

    Here's a general overview:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_f..._United_States
    The Cash Cow.

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