Bankroll investor

**Cloudstreets7087** · 05-17-2015, 09:35 AM

I recently accepted an outside investment into my bankroll. The terms are that they own 25% of my bankroll and there is a 25% royalty on my session winnings until equal to the amount of the original investment. Then the royalty goes away. They can cash out anytime they like for 25% of the total bankroll or I can buy them out for the same terms as the majority share holder.

Has anyone else ever done this? The reason I did it was to finally get away from the $25 tables and get into the high roller room. I needed my bankroll to hit a certain level before I made the move to protect myself from disaster. I also know this investor extremely well and they aren't interested in learning blackjack for profit. Well they aren't interested in blackjack but are interested in the profit part.

today was was the first day playing with this investment. They made a couple hundred in royalty and gained some bucks on the investment. So far so good.

Today happened to to be a very good day. I hit two shoes with a great count. On Sunday's there is a guy that I sit down with a lot. Really nice guy. Pretty sure he's not a counter because he flat bets all the time. Never deviates. He has his ups and downs. While the count was getting really good he said, "boy the dealer sure is busting out a lot." I said, "Yeah. Weird right?" As I jammed in $400 on a hand that I doubled down on for an $800 win. It was a cool moment.

**Three** · 05-17-2015, 09:52 AM

I will let the team oriented players answer in detail but I see a potential problem here. There seems to be no goals or breaking of the bank scheduled. You need to take 75% of the winnings out so it isn't built into the BR and he gets a 50% cut of that 75% when he cashes out. Perhaps you have a good definition of what winnings are and at what points you will break the bank so the profits are split 75-25 and you go back to the original BR. It seems he can call that at any point he wants, which is fine I guess, but you didn't give the kind of details I would want to be at least roughed out. Perhaps you have discussed all these things but you should make sure there is no ambiguity.

**Cloudstreets7087** · 05-17-2015, 10:25 AM

After analyzing my entire session history and bankroll gains and losses, I feel pretty confident I won't be paying the royalty very long. It was a measure I felt necessary to entice the investment. Once their investment doubles I will exercise my right to buy them out. So, when it's all done, they will get 2X their original investment plus their original investment back and I will have been playing at the high stakes tables.

The game is the same, the math is all the same, just the chips are different colors. I'd be lying if I said I was completely relaxed walking into the high roller room. Just nerves.

Speaking of high rollers. The pit boss said a guy bought in for $2000 yesterday and left with $600,000. That's insane! It made me feel a lot better about this particular casino and getting caught counting that's for sure.

KJ · 05-17-2015, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by Cloudstreets7087

The game is the same, the math is all the same, just the chips are different colors.

What's different is the number of eyes, scrutinizing your play, both on the floor and from above.

Without even getting into your financial arrangement, which is a real big negative, here's the way I look at it:
The HL room = increased EV.
Increased EV because of higher amounts wagered.
Increased EV in the form of increased rounds per hour because you are playing with fewer people, often heads up.
Increased EV because sometimes rules are better, meaning house edge lower.

But, with the scrutiny of the HL room, you are going to have to lay HEAVY cover to play. Heavy cover involving play and more importantly and costly, heavy cover involving betting. Unless you are talking betting much, much higher stakes, any increased EV might just be eaten up by cover.

One other negative...if you are a player that table hops at all, as I am, frequently jumping from one game to a better count at a second game, that part of your game is usually lost as many HL rooms only have one table open most times.

Also if you are a player that likes or tries to play anonymously (unrated), you can forget about that. When hitting certain daily limits which you will hit often in the HL room, they are required by law to know who you are and file paper work.

When I add it all up and weigh benefits vs cost, it isn't even close for me. Now again, if you are talking jumping to super high levels of play, maybe.

Just make sure you look at all the factors and weigh the benefits accordingly.

**Cloudstreets7087** · 05-17-2015, 12:02 PM

The problem I am running into is max bet. My bet ramp has gone to the next level which has taken me beyond the $1000 max bet of $25 tables. If I want to get the next level of returns at the same $25 tables that means I have to play more shoes after I have hit good counts. I don't want to do that.

**DSchles** · 05-17-2015, 12:07 PM

"While the count was getting really good he said, 'boy the dealer sure is busting out a lot.' I said, 'Yeah. Weird right?'"

You realize that it WAS weird, right, and that, when the count is high, the dealer busts less frequently than at neutral counts?

Don

**Cloudstreets7087** · 05-17-2015, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by DSchles

"While the count was getting really good he said, 'boy the dealer sure is busting out a lot.' I said, 'Yeah. Weird right?'"

You realize that it WAS weird, right, and that, when the count is high, the dealer busts less frequently than at neutral counts?

Don

The dealer was getting low up cards but the count was great. It was the perfect storm in my opinion.

**Cloudstreets7087** · 05-17-2015, 12:31 PM

Besides, the dealer busting is how I make money while counting. Don't know about you...

KJ · 05-17-2015, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by Cloudstreets7087

Besides, the dealer busting is how I make money while counting. Don't know about you...

It really isn't! Most of any advantage comes from increased number of BJ's @ 3:2 payoff. There is also some increase in the success rate of double downs and splits (mostly double down and mostly double downs of the hard variety).

**Orangechip2** · 05-17-2015, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by Cloudstreets7087

Besides, the dealer busting is how I make money while counting. Don't know about you...

Originally Posted by Cloudstreets7087

The dealer was getting low up cards but the count was great. It was the perfect storm in my opinion.

Your opinion is wrong . Besides, you must not know who you are attempting to debate with above .

**Cloudstreets7087** · 05-17-2015, 01:38 PM

It's not a matter of debate. These are the results of my sessions. I'm sure KJ is right. I don't pretend to know every nuance of the statistics of counting, but I do know with great detail my session results. I monitor and track it very carefully.

**Orangechip2** · 05-17-2015, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Cloudstreets7087

It's not a matter of debate. These are the results of my sessions. I'm sure KJ is right. I don't pretend to know every nuance of the statistics of counting, but I do know with great detail my session results. I monitor and track it very carefully.

I was not referring to kj. But I'm not going to bust your balls.. If you win more money "when the count is getting good" compared to the amount you recieve from BJs & successful doubles downs and splits so be it. Good cards and I wish you +EV.

KJ · 05-17-2015, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by Cloudstreets7087

It's not a matter of debate. These are the results of my sessions. I'm sure KJ is right. I don't pretend to know every nuance of the statistics of counting, but I do know with great detail my session results. I monitor and track it very carefully.

He wasn't talking about KJ, hell everyone debates almost everything KJ say.

I think he was referring to you debating, Don. That's usually a losing debate. And then, after you lose the debate, he'll correct your spelling and/or grammar. It's like a double smack-down. Don's the best.