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Thread: 1 0f 6 Players at the Table

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    1 0f 6 Players at the Table

    Hello, This is my first post. Does it make good sense to avoid tables that have five other players. This just seem like too many for me. I prefer to play with one or two other players at the table. Gives me enough time to keep count while looking natural while keeping enough of the distribution of high cards (at high counts) to make some money. I know good rules and good penetration are important. How much of an edge does a minimal number of fellow players get you? I'm a fairly new, red chip, player playing at $5 minimum. BR is $2500. Have considered playing $10 minimum tables when the $5 tables are too crowded. Should I wait until I have a bigger BR?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Bodarc's Avatar
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    Hi GoodSam

    Assuming Hi Lo, right now at $5 with a 12 spread to $60, 6D, H17,DAS, DOA you are playing with approx a 50% risk of ruin, meaning there's a 50% chance you'll lose your bank. If you don't have a renewable bankroll, I wouldn't raise my bets.

    By Wonging out of counts below 0, your 2,500 dollar bankroll will settle in at 13% risk of ruin with a spread from 5 to 60. If you don't have a renewable bankroll, you should be very careful about choosing good penetration and Wonging when things go south.
    Play within your bankroll, pick your games with care and learn everything you can about the game. The winning will come. It has to. It's in the cards. -- Bryce Carlson

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    The aversion to playing with more players at the table is not because of bigger edge, but because more hands per hour results in higher profit expectation. That should not be your biggest concern right now. Your problem is to grow a small bankroll. I would stick to the $5 minimum to reduce risk. As Bodarc said, wong out aggressively; also wong in if possible.

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    The fewer the players the better -- more hands pee hour = more EV.

    With a small BR, I'd Wong in and wong out aggressively, like said above. Don't enter a game unless it's true +1, and don't remain in a game if it's less than true 0 (if slightly negative, perhaps wait another round or 2 to see if it'll spike back up). Buy in for small amounts ($20-30 at a time, I say) so it's easy to jump from table to table (looks like you only got a little bit of money). I'm assuming you're playing shoes (6 decks?).

    Buy CVCX and CVBJ -- awesome software for practicing and simulating game play. If you can build your BR steadily (ie: real job), then you're likely off better just practicing on the software until you have a BR where you can make $20+/hour in EV.
    "Everyone wants to be rich, but nobody wants to work for it." -Ryan Howard [The Office]

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    Quote Originally Posted by RollingStoned View Post
    The fewer the players the better -- more hands pee hour = more EV.
    Thats about what I do. Pee once an hour while playing. Sorry. Couldn't resist the typo.

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    Number of players usually triumphs everything for me. This is a reversal from not long ago, when I placed a premium on penetration.

    Deep penetration increases EV significantly and can overcome most poor rules (excluding biggies like 6/5 BJ). Unfortunately for me, several games in my regular rotation with really deep penetration (1/2 to 3/4 deck cut from a six deck game) are at several of the 'local' type casinos, and are low limit ($5 or $10) games. This means they are always crowed. Crowded table = slower play which more than offsets the deep penetration. Add in side bets, and the game slows to a crawl.

    In addition to lower EV from crowded conditions and slower play, my play is exposed more and longer, which is a major concert for someone who's top priority is longevity. I want to get into the game, show my spread once and exit as quickly as possible. From the time the count is strong enough that I am showing max bet or the higher end of my spread, I want the game to move along towards the shuffle and exit as quickly as possible. Sitting there with my max bet out while the dealer methodically goes through everyone's play, including side bets and payoffs, and I am just sitting there exposed for way too long.

    I'll take a quicker moving, average penetration game any day.

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    Thanks for the excellent replies everyone! Very Helpful!

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    GoodSam.

    You have received a host of good info.

    Kudos to all respondents.

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    KJ - you're right on several points. Deep pen makes up for a lot of transgressions. In an ideal world, you have it along with heads up play. Add that to a fast dealer, and you're at 200 hph. Same pen with slow dealer, full table with side bets, and it seems like 30 hph - and it's hell to play. Better rules, poorer pen with heads up and fast game is more preferable....but if you're lucky enough.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by RollingStoned View Post
    The fewer the players the better -- more hands pee hour = more EV.

    With a small BR, I'd Wong in and wong out aggressively, like said above. Don't enter a game unless it's true +1, and don't remain in a game if it's less than true 0 (if slightly negative, perhaps wait another round or 2 to see if it'll spike back up). Buy in for small amounts ($20-30 at a time, I say) so it's easy to jump from table to table (looks like you only got a little bit of money). I'm assuming you're playing shoes (6 decks?).

    Buy CVCX and CVBJ -- awesome software for practicing and simulating game play. If you can build your BR steadily (ie: real job), then you're likely off better just practicing on the software until you have a BR where you can make $20+/hour in EV.
    Wong in - Wong out is okay when you have table selection. However, outside of major venues, table selection is usually not that good. Play all keeps you "employed". Learn negative indices and increase your spread.

    Having said that, if I enter a new store, or a new dealer in a regular store, the first question I ask myself after dealer places cut card is - what spread do I need to beat this, and secondly, (and I may not know the answer right away), what spread can I get away with.

    Also, one last point, casino tolerance can easily change, and quite quickly, due to factors which we may, or may not be aware of.

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