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Thread: My first backoff!

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    My first backoff!

    After 5 years of serious (part-time) card-counting, a steadily(slowly) increasing bankroll, and (slightly) improving results each year, it finally happened. I always knew the day would come eventually, although I was surprised where & how it happened!
    Was in a medium-sized southern town, as much for fishing as blackjack(excellent fishing btw!) This town only has 3 places I consider playable, and we usually go there once or twice a year.

    For several years now I've used a "hit & run" strategy (similar to KJ, whose advice I've always respected & tried to follow), taking a blackjack trip once a month to different towns (I'm retired military & an airline employee so I fly free). I always play unrated, & keep my sessions short, 30-45 minutes max but never more than twice thru my spread. I use Hi-Lo, spread 1 to 5($10 unit) on pitch, 1 to 10($5 unit) on shoe games. I usually don't play a store more than once a day, however in this town, as there's only 3 decent games, I sometimes play a morning & an evening session at least 8 hrs. apart, trying to hit different shifts. In retrospect, that may have been a mistake, as I realize surveillance may work different hours than the pit, & for all I know they might work 12 hr. shifts.
    So I was playing in the evening, about 8 hrs. since my previous session. 2nd day of a 3-day trip. This store has pretty good DD & fair 6D; as the DD table was crowded, I sat at a 6D table with 2 other players. After about 10 or 15 min., count not going up much (I think it got to +3 once & I had 4 units out, then the count dropped.) I "wonged out" once as the TC went very low, faking a cell call. The crowd had left the DD table except 1 other player, and I was down about $50, so I moved to DD. The count rose quickly, so I soon had my max bet out($50). I was dealt 15, dealer had 10 showing. TC was around +7 or 8, so I stood(index play). The dealer busted, then 1 or 2 hands later, an older, well dressed guy came up behind me, with a security guard behind him, & said "pull your bet back, I need to talk to you." So I stood up & faced him, he said "we're going to ask you not to play blackjack anymore this evening". Of course I knew why, but decided to "play dumb", since I had a beer in my hand, I laughingly said "Well I've only had 2 beers!" as if I thought they believed I had too much to drink, which of course I hadn't. He replied "That's not why, we just feel you're pretty good at playing blackjack & we're asking you not to play anymore this evening." So I didn't argue, cashed out & left, then on the way to the car I realized I should have left with my chips & sent my wife later to cash them, to reduce their opportunity to photograph me. It happened so fast I just didn't think of that until too late. I was up just $65! This had been my 3rd session there in 2 days, I had lost both previous sessions.

    As we were planning to go home next morning anyway, I didn't play anymore. We flew home next day.
    So now I'm asking myself the usual questions, wondering what I should have done differently & worrying about whether that casino is sharing my picture & with whom, trying to learn from this & keep it from happening again. I guess I will avoid that town for at least 6 months (if not for the great fishing I'd avoid it altogether!) And I'm looking for any helpful advice from members here of coarse!

  2. #2
    Senior Member BigJer's Avatar
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    Congrats!
    My Ability in Blackjack is a Gift from God!!

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    Yeah that's helpful!

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    Senior Member Jabberwocky's Avatar
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    Obviously if you had an "act", it sucked. And if you didn't, why are you whining?

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    He just looks like some guy who spread $50 to $1000 in shoe game earlier. The OP's spread is 100% safe in all US casinos since he is the lowest of low red chippers.

    Or just plain lying since his post count is only 12. For some reason, people want to create paranoia to new AP. Maybe they want to eliminate future competition or makes others lose money in hope that money will come to them.

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    Perhaps you were seen hitting your 16s and 15s with a minimum bet out and standing on them with your max bet.
    They also saw you wong out on the negative counts.
    Your bet spread was probably too mechanical and followable. If anyone watching followed your bets with the count, they'd realize you were very methodical on what to bet at which counts.
    Try not to always bet minimum on the first hand. Since you're wonging out on bad counts, it's not that bad of an idea to bet more than minimum on the first hand of a 6D shoe, where the off the top house edge is around 0.26% with great rules (S17/DAS/LS/RSA).
    Most people don't refuse being rated, especially if you were seen there twice in a span of three days.
    Refusals are easy if you're only going to be there once and not back for a long time (even if you play on a different shift during the same trip).
    Maybe you just didn't fit in with how the locals act and react to winning/losing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowless View Post
    Perhaps you were seen hitting your 16s and 15s with a minimum bet out and standing on them with your max bet.
    They also saw you wong out on the negative counts.
    Casinos don't spend manpower on people spreading $5 to $50 in shoe game or spreading only 5 to 1 in DD, especially the former. If someone spread $5 to $100 and got yelled "check play" which started a chain reaction, then I would believe it.
    Last edited by BJGenius007; 04-25-2015 at 04:37 PM.

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    In that town you must not play the DD, its a counter trap, they are highly protective, except for 1 place. You don't have to stay away that long just don't play DD.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Bodarc's Avatar
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    I can not imagine you being backed off from this. If they backed you off, there is no telling how many regular players they back off just for getting a little ahead. A spread of 10 on a $5 (I assume) DD game and showing max bet no more than twice and being backed off is ridiculous.

    As Shadowless said, there has to be something about your appearance or style that drew attention to you.
    Play within your bankroll, pick your games with care and learn everything you can about the game. The winning will come. It has to. It's in the cards. -- Bryce Carlson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodarc View Post
    I can not imagine you being backed off from this. If they backed you off, there is no telling how many regular players they back off just for getting a little ahead. A spread of 10 on a $5 (I assume) DD game and showing max bet no more than twice and being backed off is ridiculous.

    As Shadowless said, there has to be something about your appearance or style that drew attention to you.
    The OP said he spread 10 to 1 on shoe game and 5 to 1 on DD.

  11. #11
    Senior Member BigJer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcallister3200 View Post
    el cortez, south point, Boyd gaming, stations have all backed off counters with that sort of spread and it's not a rare story. Reno too. Wouldn't surprise me in tunica or Vicksburg either. I agree that it's ridiculous but it happens.
    Speaking of Reno, I got BOd from a well known place there for going 1 X $5 to 2 X $15.
    My Ability in Blackjack is a Gift from God!!

  12. #12
    Senior Member Bodarc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BJGenius007 View Post
    The OP said he spread 10 to 1 on shoe game and 5 to 1 on DD.
    Crappppppp that back off is ridiculous.
    Play within your bankroll, pick your games with care and learn everything you can about the game. The winning will come. It has to. It's in the cards. -- Bryce Carlson

  13. #13
    Senior Member BigJer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcallister3200 View Post
    based on that description it might rhyme with Nal Ceva
    Close. Across the street. ButI almost did get BOd from CalNeva.
    My Ability in Blackjack is a Gift from God!!

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