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Thread: KO Blackjack Advanced Questions

  1. #1


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    KO Blackjack Advanced Questions

    I like the KO system because of its simplicity and accuracy without having to account or do a conversion of how many decks have been played. But, I have been using the system for about 6 months and have started realizing some issues/patterns that negatively effect my play. So, I have a few questions about the KO system... Some basic, some more advanced. Every question assumes 6 deck, S17, DOA, no DAS, 75% penetration.

    1. I begin with an IRC of +6, in order to stay away from negative numbers (explained on page 173). This makes my key count +22. Does this mean that my pivot point is +30? I came to +30 because +6 (IRC) plus 24 (amount of 7s in a 6 deck game), gets me to a true count of 0. (leads to next two question).

    2. When employing the preferred strategy, do I only deviate when the RC reaches +30 for the category A and +22 for category B (e.g. Hard 16 v. 9 = hit, unless +30 then stand)? I ask because I find it a rare occurrence that I have an RC of +30 or greater (and it is usually at then end of a shoe).

    3. I understand that the beauty of the KO system is in its simplicity, but that simplicity seems to be costing me money towards the end of a shoe. This is
    because the count naturally raises due to the unbalanced counting method (i.e. more 7s have been played). This causes me to play weaker, deeper in the
    shoe. The only way I can combat this (without arbitrarily changing my betting strategy late in the shoe) is to create a KO-Hi/Lo key count. This means that I only raise my bet when the RC reaches +30 or better (true count of 0) for the entire shoe. But this takes me back to the issue in question one, where I
    only reach +30 late in the shoe and therefore would rarely vary my bets. Any ideas? The only thing I have read that could possibly work is simply being
    more conservative with bets late in the shoe, based on nothing except that the count is naturally higher due to the penetration (my issue with this is that
    the idea alone takes away from the strategy employed by a counter, that is, not playing based on "feel" or "gut instincts").

    Thanks for your help ladies and gentleman!

  2. #2


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    1) Yes and No. If your IRC is 6 then the key count is 22 and the pivot is 30. At the pivot the TC is +4, not 0, and calls for a max or near max bet.
    2) Yes

    3) KO is accurate at the pivot point and less accurate away from the pivot. The weakness of KO is that you may under-bet early in the shoe or over-bet late in the shoe if you're not at the pivot point. For example, if the count rises by 12 during the first deck (RC 18 with your IRC of 6), you have a small edge, but you may not raise your bet if you're sticking to the key count number. Conversely, when you're late in the shoe, 4 decks dealt, you won't have an edge at the key count, and you may bet into the neutral shoe.
    At the pivot KO is always accurate, so it informs you correctly about making your max bets.

    Get a book titled 'Color of Blackjack' by Dravot. He provides a way of making KO stronger without doing a full TC conversion.

    What you can also do is figure out the depth and count at which you'll be at TC 2 in the shoe, and memorize those numbers. Use those as the key count instead of 1 static key count number.
    You can then also take the mid point between TC 2 and the pivot, and that will be TC 3; you can bump up your bets more at this point. This gets you really close to full blown true counting without doing any division; you just need to memorize 12 different numbers.

  3. #3


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    Jockstrap513

    First of all, Marvin advice is excellent. By all means follow it.

    Just wanted to add emphasis in one small point you made and Marvin also addressed but quickly: you are supposed to start raising your bets at the key count, not waiting until the pivot. When you reach it (more often at the end of the show like you said) you'll be maxing max bets.

    Remember: Key count is TC +1 and Pivot is TC +4, not 0

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