employing the ace side count

[Meistro123]

how do you use hi / lo with an ace side count? One means is insurance decisions. If the deck is ace poor and you are at a neutral count you might want to take insurance. But what if you have a TC of 2 or 3 with a shortage of 2 or 3 aces. Would you still raise your bet? Would you raise your bet but bet less than you would if there was an average amount of aces remaining? Is there some application for soft doubling here, specifically with A6, A7 or A8? Certain splits might be sensitive to a paucity or surplus of aces.

[stopgambling]

i think there is a post by Cacarulo or someone that starts with a C. i think Sc aces is only useful in deep pen pitch games and some rare multi decks on the last couple of hands. For multi deck it is a lot of extra work for a very small gain personally.

[Shadowless]

Ace side count is meant for betting purposes ONLY -- not to be used for altering playing decisions.

If you're interesting in side counting aces, use Advanced Omega II or Hi-Opt II.

Side counting aces is meant for single deck or double deck games, where counting 4 or 8 aces are a lot easier than 24 or 32.

Here's how to side count aces: for every 13 cards, there should be one ace that comes out. Two aces per 26 cards, three aces for 39 cards, four aces for 52 cards, etc.

Example 1:
For double deck, if you count two aces and 52 cards have been dealt, there is a surplus of two aces for the remaining cards.
For the next round, you multiply the surplus of aces by the absolute value of the tens in your count system, add it to the running count, adjust for the true count, then apply the appropriate bet. Again, not to be used for playing decisions.
So in this example, if the running count is 0 and there are two aces remaining and your counting system counts tens as -2, you multiply the number of excess aces, 2, by the absolute value of the value of the tens, 2, and get 4. You add 4 to the running count. Since one deck remains, the true count is 4. So instead of betting minimum, you'd bet however many units you bet at a true count of 4. However, if you have an index play to make, you make it as if the true count is 0 (before you adjusted for the aces), since adjusting your count for aces is for betting purposes only.

Example two:
Also double deck, if you count five aces and 26 cards have been dealt, there is a shortage of three aces in the remaining cards.
Instead of adding, you subtract since there is a shortage
Five aces dealt, only two should have been dealt, so a shortage of three aces.
Multiply 3 by the absolute value of tens in the counting system, let's say 2, and you get 6, which you subtract from your running count to adjust your bet.

If the running count is 9 before the adjustment, subtract 6 to get 3, then divide by remaining decks, 1.5 since half a deck has been dealt, and you get a true count of 1.5.
So instead of betting at a true count of 6 without the adjustment, you'd be betting at a true count of 1.5.

However, if you have an index decision to make, you use the running count of 9 divided by the remaining decks to make your plays. Playing decisions are based on the true count of 6, and the betting decision is based on the adjustment for aces.

[21forme]

Ace side count is meant for betting purposes ONLY -- not to be used for altering playing decisions.

You got it backwards. It's for playing decisions only, and doesn't change betting decisions.

[ZeeBabar]

And the difference is not really worth it. As KJ used to say, time can be better spent.

[Bodarc]

https://www.qfit.com/blackjack-side-counts.htm

either.

[bigplayer]

Ace Sidecounts are overkill for the modern shoe game. If you play a mix of shoes and pitch games and want increased power you should consider one of the two combos using the same index numbers for both systems

1. High-Low and Hi-Opt I
OR
2. Original Zen and Advanced Omega II

[NotEnoughHeat]

If I play primarily shoe games with good penetration and a large spread would it worthwhile to attempt to use a ASC with HILO? if not, what better options are there?

[21forme]

If I play primarily shoe games with good penetration and a large spread would it worthwhile to attempt to use a ASC with HILO? if not, what better options are there?

No.
HiLo gets the money. That's what most professionals use. WUth a good shoe game, the best way to make more without changing your bet spread is finding a faster game.

[bigplayer]

Agree with 21forme. Stick to High Low. If you want more power you're better off moving to the Halves Count or Zen. Forget sidecounts.

[Meistro123]

Surely for a pitch game an ace side count is important.

[NotEnoughHeat]

I suppose one of the reasons why adding an ASC to an ace-reckoned count doesn't do as much compared to adding one to an ace-neutral count is because having more aces can be good or bad depending on a play while having more aces is always better for betting.

Considering my situation (shoe games only, large spread and pen), what do you guys think about an level 2 or 3 ace-neutral count w/ a ASC compared to simply using a higher level ace-reckoned count? I know that the former is probably going to be both more powerful but with less ease of use, but I'm wondering if anyone would consider the trade off worthwhile. I will probably leave doing anything as drastic as changing counts till I've reached a goal I currently have for my bankroll, however I do want to do research into what the best option is for me move into (if I decide it's worth changing from Hi Lo at all).

[NotEnoughHeat]

I like ace neutral. But I have always side counted aces. I know nothing else so when people say it is hard I just can't relate to it. It is like some poor kid. All he knows is being poor. He will think that is normal until he sees otherwise. Side counting aces is quite effective and if you use the alphabet for the side count and numbers for the main count it is pretty easy to keep from getting confused. I guess for people that are trying it as something new they may see it as hard. there are compromise counts that count the ace as half the T. BC doesn't suffer much and no side count with a hefty increase in PE and IC. Of course full ace neutral gets it all but then you have to do a side count. Like I said it is pretty easy but it is all I know so take that with a grain of salt.

I personally feel I might have more difficulty with a level two count than an ASC. So if I can get that down pat, I don't see any reason why I wouldn't be able to do the side count as well. Ease of use is not my biggest concern. Things definitely might be rocky first starting out, but I feel like if I put the work into it I would eventually be able to do a more complex count as good as I can do Hi Lo right now.

T3 do you have a recommendation of a level 2 or 3 count I might want to consider. I was looking at perhaps Omega II or APC. APC seems as difficult as one can go for a standard count and with the side count I would be tracking every rank. However, like I just mentioned, ease of use is just secondary; power is the priority. If I can have the same, or even slightly less power, for the same ease of use, I will take it. So there's still room to consider ease. Thanks in advance for any advice you might offer.