Surprising plays that have an index

[NotEnoughHeat]

The name speaks it. If anyone knows about surprising plays that actually do have an index for any count post it here!
I don't have any myself but if anyone could confirm one way or the other on these: split 20 v 10, double BJ v 10, hit any 17

[BigJer]

I know there is a hit 17 vs A at TC-5 or less.

[MJGolf]

Wong/Professional Blackjack doesn't have an index at multi-deck/S17 play for splitting 20 v. 10, although he mentions +20 for a dealer 8 up card. 17 v. A is -6 on 2013 print edition (1994 edition?) As to doubling BJ....WHY? You already have the .5 bet bonus? If I remember article from Ken Smith's site, you don't even double BJ in 6-5 game. Not that this isn't a "shits and grins" exercise or question, but why Not Enough Heat?

[Avincow]

Wong/Professional Blackjack doesn't have an index at multi-deck/S17 play for splitting 20 v. 10, although he mentions +20 for a dealer 8 up card. 17 v. A is -6 on 2013 print edition (1994 edition?) As to doubling BJ....WHY? You already have the .5 bet bonus? If I remember article from Ken Smith's site, you don't even double BJ in 6-5 game. Not that this isn't a "shits and grins" exercise or question, but why Not Enough Heat?

wat if bj pays 1 to 1

[MJGolf]

Why are you playing a BJ game that only pays 1-1, unless you are trying to count Super Fun 21 or another similar game?

[marriedputter]

The index charts I have say to hit hard 17 against an ace if the count is -4 (H17). I have not made this play yet since I usually wong out at TC of -2. I would love to see the look on the dealer's and player's faces if I do!
I HAVE however surrendered my hard 17 against an ace. I was playing HU and the dealer just paused like he couldn't believe what he was seeing. He said "Really? Surrender H17 against ace?" I said "Really!"

[Three]

I think you understand this from your post but these types of plays are very count dependent. When working with side counts you may have a huge adjustment on a particular matchup that had no index for the main count. You generate an index for use only with the side count combined wit the main count and the index may be so high you never see the count in play but with some huge side count adjustment you can make the play fairly often. I had some block side count adjustments around 25 or 30 for a few and one that was around 40. The index for use with the side count adjustment was something ridiculous like in the hundreds. I think the highest adjustment for the 6,7,8 side count was around 40 or so and it was 33,v9. HIOPT II never would indicate any situation were you would be making a split. It all depended on the 6,7,8 side count to indicate it. Enough of a surplus of 6,7,8 and you would split. All the other cards were better in deficit. A count designed for tis decision would balance 6,7 and 8 against 3,4 and 5. I am sure tis is a play the Tarzan count has an index for.

I always thought these moves were great cover plays. You make the plus EV move on a play no count could even indicate it was the right play. Sorry about the fuzzy answer but I stopped chasing the extra 25% or so from max PE and started seeing that much greater gains could be found from more accurate betting than is possible with a linear approach. Now I just use a straight linear approach to PE with a high PE count. I use my extra brain power to use a side count aimed at betting improvement that is totally useless for playing decisions. I had to search for distant memories to answer this question so the info is general not specific.

[NotEnoughHeat]

Wong/Professional Blackjack doesn't have an index at multi-deck/S17 play for splitting 20 v. 10, although he mentions +20 for a dealer 8 up card. 17 v. A is -6 on 2013 print edition (1994 edition?) As to doubling BJ....WHY? You already have the .5 bet bonus? If I remember article from Ken Smith's site, you don't even double BJ in 6-5 game. Not that this isn't a "shits and grins" exercise or question, but why Not Enough Heat?

Because I can

I think you understand this from your post but these types of plays are very count dependent.

Yep, that's why I said "for any count". There's a lot of interesting plays you would make if you had some sort of specialized count. I was just wondering where the lines were for whether a serious counter would actually make a play thinking it was the right move (ignoring heat considerations). There's a BJ movie (no dirty jokes) that I watched and a counter hit a 17. I thought that was plausible, I found splitting the 10s v 10 was a bit less.

[Mickey]

Couldn't help myself...

(If you had this X-Ray vision you wouldn't need to bother with memorizing crazy indices!)

[NotEnoughHeat]

lol that's actually one of my favorite scenes from the movie, I bring it up at the table whenever an opportunity presents itself

[Freightman]

The name speaks it. If anyone knows about surprising plays that actually do have an index for any count post it here!
I don't have any myself but if anyone could confirm one way or the other on these: split 20 v 10, double BJ v 10, hit any 17

Doubled 7v6 once - considered it a second time but chickened out. Deck was heavy heavy as about TC 17

[Shadowless]

These were new to me:
Splitting 9vA >= 9
Doubling A6v7 >= 23

There are other really obscure ones such as not splitting AAv6 at < 22 and not splitting 66v6 at < 22

All are AOII indices for H17 DOA DAS.

[RS]

These were new to me:
Splitting 9vA >= 9
Doubling A6v7 >= 23

There are other really obscure ones such as not splitting AAv6 at < 22 and not splitting 66v6 at < 22

All are AOII indices for H17 DOA DAS.

You mean < +22 or < -22?



I remember the first time I heard (or "put together") the fact you could INSURE your 17vA....then later on surrender 17vA. I was like DAFUQ....and a little while later, I was in a situation to do it.


It'd be pretty freaking hard to find an opportunity to double down a BJ vs anything, even if BJ pays 1:1. Reason being, with a $100 wager, your EV [by taking the BJ] is $150....if you choose to double, you now have to have an EV that is higher than $150 in order to make doubling more profitable. I don't remember what the EV is for doubling 11v6 is (same thing as soft-21 vs 6, right?)....but I know it's nowhere near 150% of your initial be.


I believe, a weird yet proper play, is [if possible] to take even money on a BJ vs A on a 6:5 game. Unfortunately [I've heard], casinos won't allow you to take even money on a BJ if you're playing at a 6:5 table.