What is a good game?

**Avincow** · 03-30-2015, 06:43 PM

Well you guys keep saying all the good games are gone, everything sucks these days, don't use cover, etc.

So what exactly is a 'good' game to you? Don't say BJ pays 2:1, it's gotta be a realistic game that a casino would actually offer. If you're gunna say a game that was only offered in the 80s, please also give a game that would be possible to be offered today.

**stopgambling** · 03-30-2015, 06:52 PM

it really depends , for some it would be very low heat and they can spread and bet high stakes. for others it may be a heads up game that is dealt deep ,but only tolerate short term play . There maybe mispays , misdeals or plain good games . many possiblities in life ,You just never know . But if you are unlucky.................... then it doesn't matter.

**stopgambling** · 03-30-2015, 06:56 PM

i can tell you 1 thing . A good game is where a dealer like you . Don't ever pissed off the dealer or the pit. They may not be able to change your luck ,but..........You get the idea.

. i am somewhat a confrontational person when challenged so i had my fair share of hate from dealers and pit . It did me NFG! That is how i learned. don't be a suck up either." I just put money in your pocket."

**tiny** · 03-31-2015, 12:11 AM

A good game for my in my area is 75% penetration on DD or 80% penetration on a shoe (some are more than that) and decent rules. Also, a place that has a lot of tables with these conditions that aren't very busy; meaning I can play heads up most of the time. I don't play at a level that catches much attention so I wouldn't know what the heat considerations are to someone that bets significantly more than me.

RS · 03-31-2015, 02:51 AM

I think a better question is -- what SCORE would make a good game?

I don't know how "good" you mean, but I'd say a good game is a SCORE of 80 or higher.

**terry0222** · 03-31-2015, 09:31 AM

Good Game: Assuming there is nothing truly egregious (such as 6:5 BJ), I look for two things:

1) How deep in the penetration
2) How much will the casino allow you to spread your bets without the floor people becoming overly interested in your play? Do NOT set pre-defined limits on your bet spreads, e.g. 10-1. If the house lets you spread 20-1 without hassling you, spread 20-1.

Run the numbers on something such as CVCX. I think you will see that penetration and the ability to spread has the greatest impact on SCORE. The other rules become trivial in comparison.

**terry0222** · 03-31-2015, 09:36 AM

In reply to RollingStoned, we agree a higher SCORE is better than a lower SCORE. But, SCORE is determined by several factors. I would advocate that an individual sit with CVCX or CVData, play with the variables, and determine for themselves what impacts SCORE. If you haven't done this, the results may surprise you.

**Aslan** · 03-31-2015, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by Avincow

Well you guys keep saying all the good games are gone, everything sucks these days, don't use cover, etc.

So what exactly is a 'good' game to you? Don't say BJ pays 2:1, it's gotta be a realistic game that a casino would actually offer. If you're gunna say a game that was only offered in the 80s, please also give a game that would be possible to be offered today.

XXHarrah'sXX XXHorseshoeXX in XXBaltimoreXX had a pretty good game while I was there. Six-deck, S17, late surrender, and decent pen. I understand that pen has deteriorated since then. It could be it's dealer dependent. In my experience a dealer can use the slot on the shoe to either cut thick or thin by slanting the cut card, so it may be that I had a good dealer while I was there, but I did have more than one dealer with the same result. I don't remember what this game figures as to house edge, but I think perhaps .39% house edge which is not all that hateful.

**Aslan** · 03-31-2015, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by Avincow

Well you guys keep saying all the good games are gone, everything sucks these days, don't use cover, etc.

So what exactly is a 'good' game to you? Don't say BJ pays 2:1, it's gotta be a realistic game that a casino would actually offer. If you're gunna say a game that was only offered in the 80s, please also give a game that would be possible to be offered today.

In some places I've seen games with 80% to 90% pen, H17 (S17 in higher dollar games), surrender (shoes only) which are not all that bad, only they are usually accompanied by strong surveillance which makes them only useful for H&R (and no camo) or "play long" with a ton of EV robbing camo. Still, they are playable, especially in the H&R category. As a rule, if a game looks like a candy store it probably has strong surveillance, although I've heard a few here describe places that seem like real candy stores with weak surveillance. I have not been so lucky to find one, but I do not travel extensively.

RS · 03-31-2015, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by terry0222

In reply to RollingStoned, we agree a higher SCORE is better than a lower SCORE. But, SCORE is determined by several factors. I would advocate that an individual sit with CVCX or CVData, play with the variables, and determine for themselves what impacts SCORE. If you haven't done this, the results may surprise you.

I've realized the same -- SCORE's main impact is spread and penetration.

**mrw464** · 03-31-2015, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by Aslan

XXXXXX ad a pretty good game while I was there. Six-deck, S17, late surrender, and decent pen. I understand that pen has deteriorated since then. It could be it's dealer dependent. In my experience a dealer can use the slot on the shoe to either cut thick or thin by slanting the cut card, so it may be that I had a good dealer while I was there, but I did have more than one dealer with the same result. I don't remember what this game figures as to house edge, but I think perhaps .39% house edge which is not all that hateful.

Well Aslan, I was there very recently. The bottom floor was all $15 CSM. The top floor only had 2 $25 6 deckers with no midshoe entry and a couple more at $50 minimums. There were quite a few 8 deckers. I didn't pay attention to the 6 deck pit, but the 8 deck pit had most every dealer cutting the same amount except for one particular dealer who cut to almost 1 deck. When the dealer changed, the next dealer was in shock at the thin cut and muttered "XXX always cuts thin..."

So I don't think it's universal..

**Aslan** · 03-31-2015, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by mrw464

Well Aslan, I was there very recently. The bottom floor was all $15 CSM. The top floor only had 2 $25 6 deckers with no midshoe entry and a couple more at $50 minimums. There were quite a few 8 deckers. I didn't pay attention to the 6 deck pit, but the 8 deck pit had most every dealer cutting the same amount except for one particular dealer who cut to almost 1 deck. When the dealer changed, the next dealer was in shock at the thin cut and muttered "XXX always cuts thin..."

So I don't think it's universal..

I went there with ploppy friends. They at least have the good sense to avoid CSMs and realize that 6-deck is better than 8-deck. My friend took me downstairs where, like you say, there was nothing but 8-deck games in the $15 category. We came across a $25 game downstairs with no CSM, and no one playing, the cards fanned out across the table. My friend asked the pit if he could make it a $15 game, which he agreed to do. We sat down and here comes the pit guy with a CSM. Both of us immediately began objecting. "We thought this was a hand shuffle game," we said. The pit guy returned the CSM to a table in back and we proceeded to play a 6-deck, S17, surrender, $15 game, handshuffle, all night, at least until around 4 a.m. when they decided to close down the table. Normally, however, you can still get a non-CSM $25 game. Whether it will be 6 deck or 8 deck, I don't know, as I remember my friends saying that normally the 6-deck games are in the high limit area and are $100. Since I have only been there once, I can't say, but it was certainly sweet that night, and the pen was around 75%, which I can live with. Earlier, I posted about this event somewhere else on this forum.

**bigplayer** · 03-31-2015, 10:25 PM

There is no definition of a "good game". When I was with a large team the biggest qualifier of whether a game was good was high table limits and high casino tolerance. The game was s17 ds with no surrender and no rsa and 2 decks cutoff from 6. We considered it an excellent game because we could spread from one hand of $50 to two hands of $2500 10 hours a day for weeks at a time and always had someone playing it. For a lower stakes player a good game might be low table minimums and deep penetration. It all depends.