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Thread: Chip Fanning

  1. #1
    Senior Member Bodarc's Avatar
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    Chip Fanning

    A year or two ago, I was sitting next to a player and he was fanning two stacks of chips into one with one hand. I was watching and thought "Man, that is cool, how does he do that?, He must be a professional."

    I started to practice it and then thought, "If I think he's a professional, then what must the dealers and the pit bosses think?"

    So, I never learned how to fan chips and I never will. I still think it's cool though.
    Play within your bankroll, pick your games with care and learn everything you can about the game. The winning will come. It has to. It's in the cards. -- Bryce Carlson

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    I usually try to fan then spill them all in front of me, I ain't no professional. Someone wrote about it in a book, that it looks professional to the pit and dealers.

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    Chip fanning? Did you mean he was shuffling chips? It seems like this guy spends a lot of time at the poker tables.

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    Senior Member Bodarc's Avatar
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    yes Blitz...shuffling them. He's not the only one I've seen doing it.
    Play within your bankroll, pick your games with care and learn everything you can about the game. The winning will come. It has to. It's in the cards. -- Bryce Carlson

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    Senior Member Mickey's Avatar
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    Yup, Blitz...Bodarc must be speaking of chip SHUFFLING. Bodarc, I'm glad you brought this up because as a passionate magician myself I sometimes find myself having too "smooth" of hand movements at the table (generally speaking) and I have to consciously remind myself to sustain a "choppy" or "sloppy" demeanor when it comes to handling & maintaining my chips 'n stacks at the table. Sometimes I'll sloppily "swipe" back chips after a hand, purposely ensuring they are NOT neatly cleaned up and just leave them randomly laying around in front of me in no significant order or stacks (literally just laying everywhere in random blobs of singles, doubles, etc).

    Lastly, when placing multiple chips in the circle I'll also purposely ensure they're sloppy and NOT a single tight stack (ensuring that while I do this I'm not looking like I'm purposely trying to be sloppy, either...if that makes sense...there's a certain subtlety to looking naturally careless and I try my best to reflect that in my demeanor when handling chips at the felt).

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    In my experience shuffling chips at a bj table opens conversations with the floor and dealer, which leads to the floor observing my play, and this is a great time to toss out my whopping $5 toke out. When I get a new dealer and I'm shuffling my chips and they say something along the lines of " you are good at that" or " you must play a lot" I always send them in a loop. I'll get into one of my famous conversations about how I use to only play purple on the 3rd's on roulette, get a 10k marker, and sit there for hours learning how to shuffle/ or there is always the famous "I play lot of home poker games".

    I am using a bit of reverse psychology here. I mainly play shoe games, so while I'm camping out in a store I get bored and start shuffling my chips unknowingly.

    I surely wouldn't be at the $5 table shuffling chips. If I were at a very low min. table I would do what ohbehave shared.

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    I'm clumsy handling my chips on purpose.

    I think JG made the case not to shuffle your chips:

    http://beyondnumbers.lvablog.com/201...nd-bayes-rule/

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    Senior Member Bodarc's Avatar
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    Hmmmm what can I say? Great minds think alike! hahaha
    Play within your bankroll, pick your games with care and learn everything you can about the game. The winning will come. It has to. It's in the cards. -- Bryce Carlson

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    I can shuffle with both hands , it aint hard ,just like using a level 1 count. To play stupid and let the dealers and floors loves you while you stick it to them ,now that is extremely HARD. I JUST WATCH THESE GUYS STICK IT TO THEM ,AND I AM THINKING MYSELF WHY CAN'T I DO IT? Some one told me i look suspicious .Maybe Also I never play with chips and act fluent in handling them but once in a while i had push a tall stack of chips smoothly (my bad). I always tell myself ," I am a ploppy " ",i am a ploppy", clumsy ,and dont talk too much and don't be too neat. all of the people i have witness fall into one of those category,which spells amateur ,but they do have pretty big bank roll compare to me. i am guessing at least 200k,if their big bets are anywhere from $500 -$2000.. I have only witness 1.5 out of 20 ap/cc that is any good. i learned something that day.

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    The question becomes:

    Given that an AP already does things that can draw attention, why make the problem worse by doing anything that brings attention to yourself?

    AP's already do at least two things that can attract attention:

    1) They spread their bets
    2) They play basic strategy perfectly. [ I acknowledge that there are index plays that deviate from basic strategy, but they are fairly well known also]. For instance, every average player stands on their soft 18 against a dealer 10. A soft 18 happens reasonably often. Your hit WILL be noticed by dealers and floor.

    It is also probably suspicious that the serious AP player avoids the side bets, e.g. 3-card poker.

    With this in mind, there are certain things I *avoid* doing. Anyone who wants to add to this list....feel free. (Things other that betting camoflage)

    Things I do to avoid drawing attention:

    1) No chip tricks at the table.
    2) No shirts that reference blackjack or poker
    3) No huge buy-ins. I buy-in modestly, re-buy if necessary.
    4) I shave my head....so I always wear a cap. (Bald heads get remembered)
    5) NO advice, even when asked. I will say something like: "I'm usually wrong, so just do what you think is right." Do NOT say, "The book says to ....... " Forget the damn book when playing.
    6) Similar to #5, if I take insurance and the dealer has a BJ, I shrug my shoulders and say, "Had a feeling. Guess I got lucky on this one."
    7) I will try to perpetuate common myths. Example: Assume the dealer has a 10 in the hole. That's wrong, but a common myth.
    8) I bet modestly for the dealer into high counts. Let's face it, I want the dealer on my side, and it increases the odds that my bet for the dealer will pay. If I split or double my hand, the dealer also gets extra bets.
    9) I DO use a player card. Not using one if a frequent player becomes suspicious, in my opinion.

    Any additional thoughts?

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    You do not have to "spread your bets" if you are well banked and wonging in and flat betting. Always, within the confines of your RoR and Kelly policy.

    Agree with 1
    2. Look the part, if your are betting black then look like you should be betting black, etc. In most cases, sitting a 22 year old BP wonging in and betting 2 X 500 is a big error. He does not look the part.
    3. Consider going to table with chips and get less attention
    4. Not shaving my head,
    Agree 5,6,7
    8. if you must bet for dealer (and sometime you should) then do it on your bet, not in front of your bet. You then control what he/she gets. Bet red(or whatever) chip on your bet, give him red chip if win.
    9. It is a suspicious play to sit and make 2 bets of multiple black without a players card. It will get you attention. Then, using a players card gets all your information in OSN when the party ends.
    10. Stay less than an hour. It takes surveillance about this amount of time to assess your play. The pit boss is rarely capable of assessing your play but he is capable of calling surveillance if he thinks you are a counter.
    11. Understand the game you have selected, and the environment you are in. They are not all equal.

    Hope this helps the list.
    Luck is nothing more than probability taken personally!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodarc View Post
    yes Blitz...shuffling them. He's not the only one I've seen doing it.
    The only people in the casino that I see shuffling their chips at the table are usually poker players exclusively. Just because they can shuffle chips real good doesn't mean their a pro, I'd examine their playing decisions to determine their skill level.

    When poker players shuffle their chips it can be used against them in poker as a tell. When they think for a long time and their shuffling their chips over and over it usually tells me that they don't have it if their put on a decsion. At least this was the case a few previous trips ago for a particular player shuffling chips. Pre-flop the pot got raised up to $30 and I believe 4 players came along to see the flop. The flop came 3, 2, 3 rainbow flop. The guy in early position bets $150, the chip shuffler who wasn't shuffling at the time called, the person behind him called, and the lady in late position pushes all-in for like $600-$800(she hit a boat with pocket 22). The guy who led out the betting folds, the chip shuffler starts to think for a long time and starts shuffling his chips relentlessly. I put him on a big hand like KK, QQ, or JJ. He takes so long I think about calling the clock on him but decide to let the hand play out. The guy behind him folds. When the last guy folds the chip shuffler realizes that his QQ is far behind the full house the lady hit on the flop. I was thinking, what a moron. I would have ditched those queens.
    Last edited by Blitzkrieg; 03-26-2015 at 02:26 PM.

  13. #13
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    i don't fan chips, but do sometimes (purposely, of courze) knock my stack over with my elbow when taking a sip of my whiskey...lol

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