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Thread: Road trips

  1. #1


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    Road trips

    Just curious as to how many part time AP'ers start a road trip with 8+ hours of driving(usually more like 10-12 hours) one way and checking casinos along the way to begin a 2 or 3 day road trip? Not knowing for sure you will find something to play. Then work your way back home? These weekend trips add up to a lot of driving.
    "I think, therfore I can't play blackjack."
    Arnold Snyder, Blackbelt in Blackjack pg. 229 (2005)

  2. #2
    Senior Member blackjackomaha's Avatar
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    Sounds a lot like what I've been attempting the last few months. Not quite as bad as I thought, but I'm sure I'd have a slightly different opinion on the trips if I was traveling alone - the companionship certainly helps the time go by.

    But yes, the additional mileage adds up fast!
    You don't score, until you SCORE!

  3. #3


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    Quote Originally Posted by Solo player View Post
    Just curious as to how many part time AP'ers start a road trip with 8+ hours of driving(usually more like 10-12 hours) one way and checking casinos along the way to begin a 2 or 3 day road trip? Not knowing for sure you will find something to play. Then work your way back home? These weekend trips add up to a lot of driving.
    With the price of gas where it is long drives can be problematic. Your trip plan needs to include a conservative EV estimate such that the expense/EV ratio isn't high. I'm comfortable with a 1/10 expense/EV ratio but at the stakes I play it's often hard to realize. Some players accept considerably higher ratios. But the more distributions you plan to take from your bankroll, the higher your risk of ruin. If you honor the tax law and have a high expense/EV ratio and god forbid even plan to spend some portion of your gains, your ROR will be vastly higher than it would have been absent distributions.

    That said, I do a lot of scouting. A trip for me usually includes enough known games that I have some fairly solid EV ahead of me -- I like to know in advance that expenses are likely to be justified. But in addition it often includes unknown territory with scouting opportunities. Now I'm looking for special situations not everyone would care about. But over the years the time spent scouting has been well worthwhile.

    A 2 or 3 day trip with 10 hours' driving seems tough to me. Sounds like $150 at least in gas alone, $100 in lodging -- bare minimum $250 in expenses, meaning, for me, at least 25 hours' play necessary to justify the trip. I'd have very little chance of getting those hours over a long weekend and wouldn't personally take this trip.

  4. #4


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    Real Driving Expense

    Driving expense is approx 50 cents per mile.
    Last edited by blackjack avenger; 10-01-2012 at 02:01 AM.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Coyote's Avatar
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    Furthest I have driven one way for advantage play has been 6 hours with a couple stops at stores along the way.
    Life is short so hit it hard!

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackjack avenger View Post
    Driving expense is 50 cents per mile.
    Really? Then, I have one store in my rotation where my trip expenses are 25 cents (each way). Actually less, because I usually walk when visiting. One day I will post a trip report.

    On a serious note: As most of you know, I made the decision to relocate close to the games that I play to practically eliminate expenses. For you guys that have to drive an hour or more to each location....I don't know how you do it. With the price of gas, just too much expense eating an already slim profit margin.

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    One thing to consider about road trips would be game selection. Knowing what games are available with what rules can help you calculate you EV and expenses. I don't think that anyone would advise or consider a blind road trip but I thought that I would put that out there.

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    You should always look at these trips as more than just gambling,,,but a vacation, to see and do new things,,enjoy the country side and new views,,,and on the way check out the casinos.

    Look at it as a vacation with maybe positive EV in the relaxation realm.

    I, 99 % of the times traveled to areas that had great beauty, sometimes just the smell of the air in the morning, as the mist lifted from the Cedar Bogs would make the long trip worth it just for that heavenly experience,,,,,or maybe the view of a frigid artic landscape, where after many hours of BJ you come back to the hotel and sit by the fireplace with a glass of Asti and gaze out at the icy, frozen, desolate expanse,, or maybe a dinner overlooking a deep wooded gorge inhabitated by Bears and Wolves and Panthers,,again-- after a long day and night playing some of the finest DD the U.S had to offer.

    O Yes,,a gambling trip can be SO much more.

    Ouchez

  9. #9
    Senior Member blackjackomaha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ouchez View Post
    You should always look at these trips as more than just gambling,,,but a vacation, to see and do new things,,enjoy the country side and new views,,,and on the way check out the casinos.

    Look at it as a vacation with maybe positive EV in the relaxation realm.

    I, 99 % of the times traveled to areas that had great beauty, sometimes just the smell of the air in the morning, as the mist lifted from the Cedar Bogs would make the long trip worth it just for that heavenly experience,,,,,or maybe the view of a frigid artic landscape, where after many hours of BJ you come back to the hotel and sit by the fireplace with a glass of Asti and gaze out at the icy, frozen, desolate expanse,, or maybe a dinner overlooking a deep wooded gorge inhabitated by Bears and Wolves and Panthers,,again-- after a long day and night playing some of the finest DD the U.S had to offer.

    O Yes,,a gambling trip can be SO much more.

    Ouchez
    I agree Ouchez. It is important to try to get maximum enjoyment out of wherever your travels take you.
    You don't score, until you SCORE!

  10. #10
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    Solo, if you are going to go that far you might as well head my way. I have some good stuff for ya, but I am starting the think the longer trips aren't really worth it if you try to do it in just a few days.

  11. #11


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    I do that all the time. I even fly into somewhere, rent a car, drive all over that area within a week scouting etc.

    Staying in paid hotels with usually a few comp rooms I play rated for. Last week My EV was only $1200 more than a $1500 trip cost. Luckily I ended right about EV.

    But Like Ouchez said.

    I saw new sites. I have great info on some casinos now. I even visited some relatives along the way. So in this case. TOTALLY WORTH IT!

    The absolute worst is paying a bunch of $$ for a trip only to end up not able to play because the casinos all share info and you caught heat at one on the first day. Especially if you are in a crappy area you don't want to visit anyways.

  12. #12


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    Quote Originally Posted by KJ View Post
    Really? Then, I have one store in my rotation where my trip expenses are 25 cents (each way). Actually less, because I usually walk when visiting. One day I will post a trip report.

    On a serious note: As most of you know, I made the decision to relocate close to the games that I play to practically eliminate expenses. For you guys that have to drive an hour or more to each location....I don't know how you do it. With the price of gas, just too much expense eating an already slim profit margin.

    This may sound like degenerate talk but I'll tell you how I cut expenses. And I have no doubt, based on a similar post/thread over on Wongs message board a while back others do it as well.


    When I take LONG road trips 8-12 hours driving each way. I pack a cooler with all the food I need like fresh deli meats, fruit ,water,and juice or anything else that sounds good. I do try to eat healthy and very seldom eat in a restaurant. But I won't turn down a free buffet once in a while.


    I bring along an air mattress, a sleeping bag, and sleep in my vehicle. These trips are compressed into 2 or 3 days at the most. So I'm really not getting a lot of sleep. I scout and play as much as possible. A couple of places give some comped rooms and I do take advantage of them when I can. Mostly I'm playing unrated. A normal trip will cost between 200-300 hundred dollars.


    I think blackjack avenger is right .50 cents per mile is very accurate.
    Last edited by Solo player; 09-18-2012 at 09:33 PM.
    "I think, therfore I can't play blackjack."
    Arnold Snyder, Blackbelt in Blackjack pg. 229 (2005)

  13. #13


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    I'm lucky in that I have enough stores close to me that I don't need to travel more than an hour or so in order to play. What I do travel for, and have found to be very profitable, are tournaments. In fact, trips to tournaments have become the focus of my play over the past few years. If the EV of the tournament is high enough, I will drive up to 12 hours (can be done in 1 day). Lodging and food is almost always discounted and often comped. I focus mainly on blackjack tournaments, but some of the strategy principles apply to other games as well (baccarat, for example). And, of course, poker tournaments probably offer the best skill/luck ratio for skilled players.

    It's a different kind of beast than other forms of AP however. While the money is good, it comes as a (sometimes long) series of small losses (entry fees) followed by a large win. If you need a steady(ish) stream of income, tournaments may not be appropriate as your only source, but if you're an AP, I highly recommend learning some of the basic (as in simple) strategies and playing tournaments when the opportunity arises. If you engage in enough play during the course of your normal routine, it's not hard to get comped in. If you then combine the tournament with your normal AP during the trip, the tournament then becomes a 100% positive EV addition.

    Tournaments are also a completely different way to play some of the games where we normally grind it out, often requiring additional mental dexterity and creativity as one encounters new situations to deal with. That part of it makes it fun, which is an important part of the equation for me.

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