See the top rated post in this thread. Click here

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 13 of 24

Thread: First foray into card counting - advice appreciated

  1. #1


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

    First foray into card counting - advice appreciated

    Hello! I recently returned to my home country after a trip to the US where I tried to give card counting a go. I would like to relate my experiences here and would appreciate any advice and opinion any of you may be able to provide.

    My first attempt at Card Counting was at the Cliff Castle Casino in Camp Verde, Arizona. This is an Indian-run casino which has been voted the best casino in Arizona for a number of years, and I found the environment there very welcoming and friendly. I also played a bit of poker there in cash games. The tables were very busy here. Conditions were 6 decks, hit on soft 17, DAS, split 3 times and resplitting aces allowed. Once I got dealt aces and resplit twice to win all four hands. I played with a very small spread (1-6 units) with a minimum bet of $5. I played for two hours and made a profit of $95. Penetration was poor (60%), but there were still a reasonable amount of hands I could raise my bet with due to a high TC. I attracted apparently no heat from the staff.

    Session two was at Sam's Town on the Boulder Highway outside Las Vegas. Here I tried playing a double deck game with no doubling after split. The house edge off the top was a fairly unattractive 0.7%. Minimum bet of $5 and a spread of 10 units were applied. After two shoes, the dealer decided to reduce the penetration from about 75% to 50%. I was playing heads up the whole time. Note that when they increased the shuffle rate I was not winning but rather about $100 in the hole. I left after one and a half hours with a profit of $101 (after tips).

    My next session was at the Colorado Belle in Laughlin. Here, I initially played the single deck game but I did very poorly, losing $200 in the first deck. My bet variation was enough to raise dealer suspicion and penetration was immediately reduced to 50%. I left after about half an hour and proceeded to a double deck game where they also reduced the penetration after only one shoe. In any event I was never ahead or winning and I lost my entire stack of about $600 in under two hours with a minimum bet of $5.

    My final session was at El Cortez downtown which I knew had a very low house edge but also had a very bad reputation for heat. The minimum bet was $5. I lasted FIFTEEN MINUTES before I was flat-betted. This despite losing $250 during that time. There were 5 other players on my table and they were atrocious. And I had made it clear to the pit staff that I was a tourist with a plane to catch and was going back to my country later that afternoon.

    I was absolutely astounded. Why do these killjoys even bother? They are wasting their time making extra shuffles and ruining their own casino's reputation. Yes, I was playing with a negative house edge with my bet variations, but I was betting nowhere near the maximum. I would be barely earning $10 an hour in the long run and there were five other players literally throwing their money at the house given how lousily they played. I gave the house a bit of action and played through a couple of more decks, broke even, and bolted out on the double.


    I flew back to my home country and decided to give card counting a go there, even though most blackjack tables there have amongst the worst house edges in the world. At the casino in my city the regular BJ game is pointless as a continuous shuffler is used but on Friday and Saturday nights an additional shoe-dealt game (with six decks, stand on S17, DAS) is available. They also have a Spanish 21 variation which is always dealt from a shoe. Betting limits are $10 to $400. I mixed up my play between these two games, and in six sessions my results varied from $5 (essentially breaking even) to $1050, with a total profit approaching $2000. Penetration was 90% in all of these games and I did to perceive any attention from the staff. I was spreading 1-15 units with partial wonging (using the lavatory as an excuse!) occasionally. So far so good.......

    So this is my version of the unglamorous world of advantage gambling. I am definitely after advice if you have it. Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

  2. #2


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    I'll bite. Why all the travel? Arizona to Vegas to Colorado and back to Vegas? How long were you here? What was your betting spread at El Cortez?

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    227


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    You must be doing something very obvious to get pen reduced after 1 or 2 shoes at a $5 table. Most people play EC as kind of a right of passage, to find out what everyone is talking about. It is not likely that you will be able to play long enough to make much of a difference.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Bodarc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    136 miles North of West
    Posts
    1,949


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by mickeymouse View Post
    Cliff Castle Casino in Camp Verde, Arizona. The tables were very busy here. Conditions were 6 decks, hit on soft 17, DAS, split 3 times and resplitting aces allowed. I played with a very small spread (1-6 units). Penetration was poor (60%)
    Why are you playing at a busy table with a small spread and poor penetration?

    Quote Originally Posted by mickeymouse View Post
    Sam's Town on the Boulder Highway outside Las Vegas. Here I tried playing a double deck game with no doubling after split. The house edge off the top was a fairly unattractive 0.7%. After two shoes, the dealer decided to reduce the penetration from about 75% to 50%. I was playing heads up the whole time. I left after one and a half hours with a profit of $101 (after tips).
    Unattractive house edge, poor penetration. Why did you play this game 1 1/2 hours after they reduced penetration?

    Quote Originally Posted by mickeymouse View Post
    El Cortez downtown which I knew had a very low house edge but also had a very bad reputation for heat. I lasted FIFTEEN MINUTES before I was flat-betted. There were 5 other players on my table and they were atrocious. And I had made it clear to the pit staff that I was a tourist .....
    Why are you playing with 5 players at your table (know what that does to your rounds per hour?). Why are you making it clear to pit staff you are a tourist? Did you leave shortly after you were flat betted?

    These are the questions that came to me as I was reading your post.

    If you are a tourist and just sight seeing and having fun, that is one thing. If you are planning to make money playing bj, you must spend more time scouting and play where the good games are or don't play. I did not run the statistics but I can tell you that 90% penetration will overcome a lot of bad rules on Friday and Saturday nights at your local casino.
    Play within your bankroll, pick your games with care and learn everything you can about the game. The winning will come. It has to. It's in the cards. -- Bryce Carlson

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Melbourne.
    Posts
    803


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Hi Mickeymouse, you can chose not to answer if you don't wish to, but you wouldn't happen to be from Tasmania, Australia? When you mention only shoe games on Friday and Saturdays and a Spanish 21 variation, it sounds like Hobart!

  6. #6


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    On your website it states you have been restricted.from 2 casinos in Oz.... How so and how long did you last there?

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Melbourne.
    Posts
    803


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    8 years at Crown, 2 days at Hobart. So, are you from Tassie as I suspect?

  8. #8


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    2 days lol! Were you playing Pontoon or BJ?

  9. #9


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    I refuse to reveal my location. For all I know you could be an informer for the house. Sorry for the paranoia but my motto in life is trust no-one.

  10. #10


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by mickeymouse View Post
    i refuse to reveal my location. For all i know you could be an informer for the house. Sorry for the paranoia but my motto in life is trust no-one.
    Me, TOO.

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Melbourne.
    Posts
    803


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Yeah, you're definitely from Tassie. You know about their shoe based pontoon. It's ok, I'm not an informant for the house, I'm quite well known in the Australian BJ community, and have done radio interviews etc.

  12. #12


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Did you ever cards in ponttoon a la Katarina Walker?

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Melbourne.
    Posts
    803


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    I didn't, no. Pontoon was shoe based at Crown, however, I never really got into it and by the time I knew more about it, it went CSM. It's currently 6:5 CSM based. Pretty crap. I did notice the shoe based Pontoon in Tasmania. Is it still a case of shoe games only after 8pm on Friday and Saturdays?

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Counting advice - El Cortez
    By 88butter88 in forum General Blackjack Forum
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 01-06-2014, 03:16 PM
  2. young gun: advice appreciated
    By young gun in forum Blackjack Main
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 12-10-2007, 10:21 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

About Blackjack: The Forum

BJTF is an advantage player site based on the principles of comity. That is, civil and considerate behavior for the mutual benefit of all involved. The goal of advantage play is the legal extraction of funds from gaming establishments by gaining a mathematic advantage and developing the skills required to use that advantage. To maximize our success, it is important to understand that we are all on the same side. Personal conflicts simply get in the way of our goals.