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Thread: Introducing Myself

  1. #1


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    Smile Introducing Myself

    Hello everyone. I just wanted to take the time to introduce myself and as a new counter-in-training I hope to learn a lot here.

    I initially got into CC a couple years ago and after reading 6 or so books on BJ, I decided I wanted to learn Zen. I purchased felt, a shoe, over 60 actual casino decks for deck estimation, and Casino Verite. I practiced daily for 3 months and even visited LV a couple of times during my initial training without ever playing just to see if I could watch and count tables. Even though I could count down a deck in under 30 seconds, I felt that I didn't develop the necessary proficiency - I would lose the count all the time. I then abandoned the endeavor.

    But after a year I'm back and I am really getting into it again and this time I want to end up actually playing. I switched to Hi-Lo and can count much easier. I'm still not at a proficient level to hit a casino but I plan on using Casino Verite daily until I'm ready.

    I am using the "Hi-Lo Lite" system as published in Blackbelt in Blackjack by Snyder (IMO the best book I've read).

    1. From my research, the True Edge method is not the best to use with Hi-Lo? Should I convert to the standard TC method in Wong's book and just learn the Illustrious 18?
    2. Am I handicapping myself by going with Hi-Lo? Should I just switch back over to Zen and keep practicing? I've read Hi-Lo isn't that good for SD/DD and my concern is that I won't be able to play higher EV games with Hi-Lo.

    For anyone who responds, I thank you in advance.
    Last edited by kosmic; 09-11-2012 at 10:14 PM.

  2. #2


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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmic View Post
    Hello everyone.

    1. From my research, the True Edge method is not the best to use with Hi-Lo? Should I convert to the standard TC method in Wong's book and just learn the Illustrious 18?
    2. Am I handicapping myself by going with Hi-Lo? Should I just switch back over to Zen and keep practicing? I've read Hi-Lo isn't that good for SD/DD and my concern is that I won't be able to play higher EV games with Hi-Lo.

    For anyone who responds, I thank you in advance.
    Hi Kosmic, welcome. It sounds like you're off to a great start.

    1. Yes. True Edge bad. Standard TC good. We're all pretty unanimous on that one (thanks Norm!). Sure, just learn the I18 to get you going. After you get going, consider learning more, to me they're like free money and the improvement is measurable. Why only learn 18? But don't worry about it now.

    2. Not really. HiLo is good enough for SD/DD, just not theoretically fantastic. You already consider Zen to be a roadblock, strong enough that you once quit out of frustration. You seem positive about HiLo, and HiLo is the industry standard. Learn it, go kick ass, then 6-36 months from now, let Tthree and I try to convince you to upgrade, and let others try to dissuade you from it.

  3. #3


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    HiLo is fine (without True Edge). You seem to be taking a solid approach to learning the game, best of luck.

    I must say it is quite refreshing to see someone actually practising, instead of the usual 'I've read the first 2.5 chapters of a book so I'm off to the casino with my $87 bankroll' new players!

  4. #4
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    If you are going to count hi-lo I would take the time to learn full indicies, that can be very powerful.

  5. #5


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    I strongly agree with what's already been said. Stick to hi-lo for at least a year. If you feel it's too easy at that point learn something new. The biggest advantage I've found is a level 1 count allows me to play many more hours per day without mental fatigue. This more than makes up for any slightly greater edge. Certainly it isn't the best for SD and DD, but making mistakes is worse.

    I think it often is overlooked for beginners for another reason. An easier count allows you to more easily converse with players, dealers, floor etc. It will also help you look more natural at the table because you won't have to strain as hard to maintain the count. The worst thing a new player can do is get in over their head with their count and end up "looking" like a counter.

  6. #6


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    Hi Kosmic, you've come to the right place. I picked up Blackbelt on the recommendation of this forum as I am new to the counting game as well. I've been hammering away at learning basic strategy and just started practicing the Red 7 Count from Blackbelt. I figured I would start here as I am very new to advantage play.

    If I've learned anything from the forum yet, it's to commit to one strategy and attack it until you have it down pat. You'll know when you are ready to upgrade to get the most out of your game - as most of the fine AP's here have already said. Bookmark this site - it will be a valuable resource for you!

  7. #7


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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmic View Post
    after reading 6 or so books on BJ, ...over 60 actual casino decks for deck estimation, and Casino Verite. I practiced daily for 3 months
    You've already done the most important part. You'll pick up more knowledge as your initial sessions will confirm what you've been practicing.
    Last edited by Reign Man; 09-12-2012 at 05:01 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by First Normal Form View Post
    1. Yes. True Edge bad. Standard TC good. We're all pretty unanimous on that one
    Can't say everyone is completely unanimous on that on. The gist of what Snyder is getting at is correct. Having said that I use actual TC, just personally found the "True Edge" a kind of pointless "improvement", which ironically is harder for me to remember than standard TC. Plus it obfuscates some of the details that most serious students of counting would like to know.
    Timidity is dangerous: Better to enter with boldness. Any mistakes you commit through audacity are easily corrected with more audacity.

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