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Thread: Disturbing video

  1. #27


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    Quote Originally Posted by KJ View Post
    Justin Mills seems to have a pretty good idea that the actions taken against him were unlawful.
    He seemed to handle himself reasonably well, BUT why did he sign the Trespass statement?

  2. #28
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Some cops are indeed “crooked”. But, I wouldn’t assume that this is the normal case. Most are simply ignorant. And, the word ‘ignorant’ doesn’t mean stupid and isn’t necessarily an insult. It can mean “lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular”. Law is complex. You can’t expect people at the pay grade of cops to understand the intricacies of law. Half the lawyers are wrong, and judges are oft overruled.

    IMHO, you can argue politely with cops. If you start out with an “attitude”, they won’t listen to a word you say. If you give them the “respect” that they think they deserve, they might listen. My experience is that they usually will. And, if you explain that you understand their position, they’re far more likely to understand your position. I made friends with numerous cops during my Poker days. It has saved me from several later unfortunate situations that could have been problemsome. Most cops believe in loyalty to a fault, and have long memories. Be on the loyal side of their decisions.

    Yeah, you might get a big payout by getting beaten up and having your rights violated. Is that your goal in life? To provoke violence against yourself so you can sue -- or write a book? Do you really want to spend years fighting a court case? That is not my idea of success.

    Just my opinion.
    Last edited by Norm; 10-28-2014 at 05:35 PM.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  3. #29


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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    Yeah, you might get a big payout by getting beaten up and having your rights violated. Is that your goal in life? To provoke violence against yourself so you can sue -- or write a book? Do you really want to spend years fighting a court case? That is not my idea of success.
    That isn't my goal in life, but for these kinds of things to stop, someone has to fight them.
    "Everyone wants to be rich, but nobody wants to work for it." -Ryan Howard [The Office]

  4. #30
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    Did this incident happen in North Korea or America? Oh Maryland, the state where the nations capital is located, it makes perfect sense now as to why that poor boy got harrassed.
    Last edited by Blitzkrieg; 10-28-2014 at 06:24 PM.

  5. #31
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg View Post
    Did this incident happen in North Korea or America? Oh Maryland, the state where the nations capital is located, it makes perfect sense now.
    I don't understand the purpose of this post. APs have been harassed everywhere in the world. Please don't bring the bad habits you are learning elsewhere here.
    Last edited by Norm; 10-28-2014 at 06:38 PM.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  6. #32
    Senior Member MJGolf's Avatar
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    False imprisonment at least



    Second video; same incident. On way to back hallway before police arrived. In a way, I see two things here. One, there WAS false imprisonment. The security guard DID initially twist his arm BUT if you look later in video, then you see Mills has his hand behind turned up his back but the guard is not holding it. There MAY be more to this story OR Mills MAY have had a "plan" that we don't know about. Not sure because you can't hear audio. BUT he sure seemed to know where camera's were facing. Not that the EITS can't see about every angle.
    Last edited by MJGolf; 10-29-2014 at 05:33 AM. Reason: comment upon further review of video
    "Women and cats will do as they please, and Men and dogs should just relax and get used to the idea" --- Robert A. Heinlein

  7. #33
    Senior Member Aslan's Avatar
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    There is no meaning to Maryland, the state where the nation's capital is located. I have lived in Virginia the better part of my life, the nation's capital being located between Maryland and Virginia, and I can assure you that nothing happens in either state on the basis of its proximity to the nation's capital. If it were so, you would see changes in these states every time a different party takes over, but the fact is, these two states appear totally oblivious of whichever party is currently wielding power.

    In those areas of Maryland and Virginia closest to the nation's capital, what you have is a political mixture of people from states throughout the United States who come to Washington (1) due to military transfers, (2) to serve politicians from their home states, and (3) to take advantage of the virtually recession proof job market in the Washington, D.C. area, perhaps the most diverse population in the United States.
    Last edited by Aslan; 10-28-2014 at 10:40 PM.

    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 - 8/23/10... “Life’s most urgent question is: what are you doing for others?” — Martin Luther King, Jr.

  8. #34


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    Quote Originally Posted by KJ View Post
    This is the way I see it as well. I thought the cops acted professionally, just incorrectly. With all these new jurisdiction in the last few years, there is a learning process for casinos as well as police. It will take a few successful lawsuits to educate all of them. They may think they are acting within the law, but they will find out that they are not. And just because something is written that way by the casino or even by the state, doesn't make it legal. That's what the whole court process is for.

    Justin Mills seems to have a pretty good idea that the actions taken against him were unlawful. I hope he pursues the issue. In my mind, the funny thing is that they have made it so easy for him. Maryland Live will be providing the key evidence in the form of this video. Testimony from officers and Maryland Live personnel will almost be irrelevant.
    Professionally? Did you miss the part when he (repeatedly) stated how he wouldn't allow the guy to cash in his chips because he was afraid he would accuse "us" of stealing the player's money?

    That is about as unprofessional as is possible, blatantly siding with one side in a commercial dispute and suggesting someone would commit a crime (make a false accusation) on absolutely no basis.

    Not to mention, the cop seems to think he is an unpaid lawyer for Maryland Live.

    If you ever need a primer on the true nature of police and who they are looking out for (in order: 1. themselves, 2: the local economic and/or political interests of greatest power, and then 3: the rest of us if we are lucky) then it's encounters like this that will properly school you.

    And yes, I have run into cops with EXACTLY that attitude, and no, their actions had nothing to do with MY attitude.

  9. #35


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    What is the most likely outcome from this event? I hope he sues and win .This may turn into some kind of debate. It seems to me the video clearly shows that Mr. mill was detain against his will.

  10. #36
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Keep in mind that stores regularly detain, interrogate and threaten people, including minors, sometimes even put them in chains, when suspected of shoplifting. In one year, Macy's detained 12,000 people. (And, was successfully sued a few times.)

    The laws vary by state. I believe some states allow any person to detain (citizen’s arrest) any other person for violations as minor as not wearing a seatbelt, or playing craps.

    Where this story differs is that there was no suspicion of a crime. Also, once the police arrived, they interfered with him cashing his chips. Further, there is a tape -- so the casino can't invent some crime. The incident disgusts me, and I would like to see this pursued in court. But, I think he would need a very convincing attorney as a jury or judge may think he was a just gambler who was inconvenienced.

    For an old, scary article, see: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/17/ny...ted=all&src=pm.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  11. #37
    Senior Member Aslan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bronco60 View Post
    Professionally? Did you miss the part when he (repeatedly) stated how he wouldn't allow the guy to cash in his chips because he was afraid he would accuse "us" of stealing the player's money?

    That is about as unprofessional as is possible, blatantly siding with one side in a commercial dispute and suggesting someone would commit a crime (make a false accusation) on absolutely no basis.

    Not to mention, the cop seems to think he is an unpaid lawyer for Maryland Live.

    If you ever need a primer on the true nature of police and who they are looking out for (in order: 1. themselves, 2: the local economic and/or political interests of greatest power, and then 3: the rest of us if we are lucky) then it's encounters like this that will properly school you.

    And yes, I have run into cops with EXACTLY that attitude, and no, their actions had nothing to do with MY attitude.
    At the very least the police could have accompanied Mills to the cashier where he could cash in his chips himself.

    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 - 8/23/10... “Life’s most urgent question is: what are you doing for others?” — Martin Luther King, Jr.

  12. #38
    Senior Member Aslan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    Keep in mind that stores regularly detain, interrogate and threaten people, including minors, sometimes even put them in chains, when suspected of shoplifting. In one year, Macy's detained 12,000 people. (And, was successfully sued a few times.)

    The laws vary by state. I believe some states allow any person to detain (citizen’s arrest) any other person for violations as minor as not wearing a seatbelt, or playing craps.

    Where this story differs is that there was no suspicion of a crime. Also, once the police arrived, they interfered with him cashing his chips. Further, there is a tape -- so the casino can't invent some crime. The incident disgusts me, and I would like to see this pursued in court. But, I think he would need a very convincing attorney as a jury or judge may think he was a just gambler who was inconvenienced.

    For an old, scary article, see: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/17/ny...ted=all&src=pm.
    To play devil's advocate, where a business posts "no firearms permitted", for example, even though one has a permit to carry concealed, I believe one has committed a violation when they enter the premises with a concealed weapon. I wonder if the same applies to a casino, although I have never seen "card counting prohibited" signs anywhere? Here we have the casino alerting the customer to the fact, and we also have the need of the casino to ascertain the ID of whom they are banning from reentry. You know how the law is often interpreted in such a circuitous fashion and even when it appears one has an open and shut case they rule against them. We can only hope that this case is ruled in favor of Mills and sets a precedent for others to follow. The state may see an advantage, however, in "stretching" the law to fit the outcome it sees as favorable to itself. Am I being overly cynical?

    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 - 8/23/10... “Life’s most urgent question is: what are you doing for others?” — Martin Luther King, Jr.

  13. #39
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Some states have written into the law that businesses have the specific right to ban firearms. A casino could post “no card counting” signs. But, that’s just a casino policy. It doesn’t have the force of law, and the law doesn’t call card counting cheating. It would be like a restaurant demanding a jacket and tie. They can refuse entry. But, they can’t detain and interrogate you for not wearing a tie.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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