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Thread: Question for Norm

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    Question for Norm

    I've been looking through your massive repository of graphs and can't find what I'm looking for.
    Do you have a graph or chart of EV vs. # of players at a DD game at a fixed penetration that takes into account the change in hands per hour with additional players?

  2. #2
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    No. Fixed penetration is never really exactly fixed. (Which is why CVData has a variable penetration option.) The problem with a general graph like this is that the specifics can make a noticeable difference in a DD game with multiple players, as the number of rounds you get can vary. Thus, I’m afraid a general chart might be misleading.
    "Croyez ceux qui cherchent la vérité, doutez de ceux qui la trouvent." --André Gide

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    My question came following a discussion with an AP friend a few days ago (you spoke with him on the phone recently.) His contention is that as you add players to a DD game, your EV decreases due to a slower game. I said that's part of it, but the other part is the fewer number of rounds dealt.

    I simmed in CVData a DD game with 1 player and 100 rounds/hour, then the same game with 3 players at 60 rounds/hour. The former game had an EV about 30% higher. It appears that the lower EV can be mostly attributed to game speed, which just doesn't make sense to me. Am I missing something?

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    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Speed is not a factor in EV. It is a factor in win rate. Your friend isn't quite right, and this is why a general chart can be misleading. In hand-held games, and particular SD, adding players can either increase or decrease EV. The number of rounds will go down. BUT, the actual penetration may go up or down. That's because the dealer waits 'till the end of the round to shuffle, and with more players, third base is likely to receive cards substantially beyond the penetration point. OTOH, some dealers will shuffle before the penetration point with a large number of players, reducing penetration. So, it really depends on the exact circumstances.
    "Croyez ceux qui cherchent la vérité, doutez de ceux qui la trouvent." --André Gide

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