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Thread: Prob with indices

  1. #27
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    With the same number of indices halves is better.

  2. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by moses View Post
    Does a 1/2 point count improve the minimum bet part of the game?
    Yes in that it improves how you play the hands for most matchups. Ideally the biggest improvement IMHO for your SD game is an ace neutral count. How taxing is it to count up to 4 aces. It will really help with playing decisions over an ace reckoned count. Playing decisions is much more important in SD games since you can't vary your bet much. The ace is a low card for most playing decisions.

  3. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by moses View Post
    Don. Along this similar line of thought, is Wong Halves (Ill 18) vs Hi Lo (full Index) worth the extra effort?.
    It would seem counterproductive to move to Halves while reducing the indices. One major point in moving to a higher level count is more accurate indices -- which you are throwing away. The most important index, insurance, you keep. But, Halves actually has a lower IC than HiLo. Yes BC goes up. But, up from 97%.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  4. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by moses View Post
    No question. But how much better is the confusing part. Will it increase my income by 10%, 20%, monthly, annually? Halves does seem to reduce volatility on minimum bet hands. Tweaking it a bit by giving the 2 a full point count and the 8 a 1/2 point makes it easier to count with 1/2s on each side of the ledger.
    There are a lot of factors that play into quantifying the gain. A sinple Sim of the conditions and playing style you are interested in should quantify this for you.

  5. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    Yes BC goes up. But, up from 97%.
    And Moses is not a shoe game player so BC improvement isn't going to be worth much spreading 2:1 or 3:1 in SD or even in tolerable spreads for DD.

  6. #32


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    Are you not familiar with the SCORE study in BJA3? Both Hi-Lo and Halves, among many others, are part of the comparisons. You should find what you want, for all types of games, there.

    Don

  7. #33
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    Player's actual spread cause PE and BC to interact which changes the performance from what you expect it to. The highest PE and BC doesn't necessarily mean you will make the most money. PE is calculated flat betting. When you add in bet variation interacting with the value of the plays, the gain from the playing variations will change the percentage that each playing variation contributes to the monetary gain from playing variations versus BS. Remember your ramp will trigger indices at different points relative to another count depending on the counts correlation to the play. One count may trigger an index when the betting advantage is lower than other counts as correlation is better. Not only does the correlation increase the gain for each true count increment above the index it also increases the frequency of use. As a consequence that a count that has better PE and BC doesn't necessarily have a higher EV than a count with a lower PE and/or a lower BC.

  8. #34
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    Lots of playing decisions are strongly affected by the ace, some with it as an important low card and some as an important high card. Look at BJA3 hand matchup EORs (Appendix D) for these hands. I am sure you will be surprised by much of what you find. A sim can generate adjustments or BJA3 tells you how to hand calculate them. It is most significant in some of the weaker soft doubles and hard doubles. Doubling 10vT is very strongly influenced by ace density. Doubling 10vA is worth the adjustment. It can be worth using for some other plays if the imbalance is big enough but many plays have small adjustments so without a big imbalance it isn't going to change things a lot. Of course in SD at deep pen a little can be a lot.

  9. #35
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    Side counting neutral cards can be difficult for some The advantage is they can be weighted exactly right for the decision at hand whether it is what to bet or how to play rather than a count tag that targets betting (in the case of the ace) or a general PE gain. It is no longer an either or but a best of all worlds.

  10. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by moses View Post
    Far better than Hi Opt II for BC
    You do realize almost everyone that uses HIOPT II uses an ace side count. They enjoy a BC of .98

  11. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by moses View Post
    The Efficiency calculator reflected a BC of .911.
    That is without an adjustment for aces.

  12. #38
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    You can approximate using the calculator by using an unbalanced count that has HIOPT II and the ace as -2. I think it would lose a hair to being unbalanced with a count adjustment for each ace seen rather than balanced as it would be with side count adjustments for surplus/deficit aces but it might go the other way.

  13. #39
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    +1*(6) + -1*(0) = +6, 8's are neutral (count as 0).

    The sum of count tag times number of cards seen in the range for each tag.

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