Is the game still worth playing?

[Bionic]

I played as a serious hobby about 5 or 6 years ago, but quit for several reasons. First, I wasn't able to get to LV as often as before, and conditions where I lived in the midwest were always pretty bad. Second, conditions everywhere seemed to be deteriorating rapidly. To avoid barring (which happened a couple of times in Vegas), I had to limit my spreads to the point that my EV wasn't worth it.

So now, 5 years later, is it worth taking it up again? Thanks for any input.

[MJGolf]

What are you going to do instead? or play slots or video poker? Game still worth it. It's just not as easy to make any money as before. It seems to be a lot of work for a small return but it's still a fun game and you won't see me playing anything that I don't have the possibility of at least a positive EV no matter how small. But you are going to see a world of changes from 5 years ago, though it was changing then. Less and less hand held games; almost all are H17; lots of 6-5 crap. Hard to find games with surrender but that was true 5 years ago. Just because the rules change, though, doesn't mean that you can't count and still have a positive EV. It's just that now, you have to spread more (as everyone is teaching me) and ramp up later in count because it takes a higher count to overcome the higher House Edge. But please, it's still a great, fun game. "Don't let the b*stards get you down!"

[muffdiver]

Playing as a livelihood is a poor, poor idea for 99%+ of people. I'm glad to see that KJ can do it but he is an exception to the rule.
For the great majority of us, it's best to have a real job with a regular secure income and do AP on a part time basis for supplementary income. That approach has worked quite well for me. I really enjoy the challenge and it makes good financial sense to have a hobby that increases net worth rather than sapping it.

[Ouchez]

Well said Moses!

Bionic, a big difference is the H-17 on almost all games, it is like a deadly snake lying in the grass ready to spring up and bite you, and it hurts,, I feel it is the worst thing since 6.5 for the player. I played all s-17 for the last 2 days, it was like Heaven.

Playing a H-17 shoe without LS, needs a big something else before I will consider playing it. How about s-17 and LS, that is a real wild set up, but try and find it for under $50 or $100 min.

I like Muffys post, he is totally correct!

O

[bigplayer]

Counting is vastly preferable to just sitting there and winging it. In that regard if you are going to play anyway I'd say it's highly worth it. I find nothing entertaining with gambling and having absolutely no chance to win in the long run. In the short run anything can happen so if you only make an occasional trip to Vegas every other year or so it really doesn't matter; just use money management strategies and perfect basic strategy to avoid taking a big loss that you will never recover from. Occasional players get vastly more than their fair share in reinvestment from the casino as the casino attempts to make them into regular players, so the occasional square basic strategy player may actually have a higher overall edge than a frequent card counter (again depending on a bunch of factors) all because of casino marketing's reinvestment strategies.

[RobinHood21]

Plenty of "good games" to play these days. Just have to search a bit more. LV is littered with juicy games. And to be honest, most of the games that I see in LV are closer to what was offered in the "good ole' days" ( I wasn't around in those times but books have great stories), minus single decks. The DD and 6D shoes are close to a break-even game off the top. And in ten years of playing I have only seen a handful of games get close to those house edges. The playable games are out there. You just need to put in the time and effort to find them.

[KJ]

Plenty of "good games" to play these days. Just have to search a bit more. LV is littered with juicy games. And to be honest, most of the games that I see in LV are closer to what was offered in the "good ole' days" ( I wasn't around in those times but books have great stories), minus single decks. The DD and 6D shoes are close to a break-even game off the top. And in ten years of playing I have only seen a handful of games get close to those house edges. The playable games are out there. You just need to put in the time and effort to find them.

I am not going to argue this point at all. There are plenty of good games in Vegas, you just have to look a bit and that means getting off the strip, which many players just don't bother doing. But I do think the mention of really good DD games in Vegas, needs to come with an asterisk. Many, if not most of the better DD games, are either 'hawked' so closely that you really have to work to get any play in, or else they are just down right 'counter traps'. Either way there are risks involved with playing them. I am not suggesting you can't play some, especially for short sessions, but the heat issue obstacles need to be mentioned in relationship to these games.

The question that started this thread, “is it worth it” is very subjective. What is worth it to one, may not be worth it to another. It kind of seems like the OP answered his own question when he recalls that the spread limitations that he had to employ at his local shops, reduced his EV to the point that it wasn’t worth it to him. Has something changed? Is that amount of EV, now worth your time?

As for the part-time vs full-time debate or discussion, there is no doubt in my mind that today’s environment is much better suited for the part-time approach, with other income to cover your living expenses. Playing fulltime, as your only income is still possible, but, it is very consuming of time and life. Doing so has to be more a lifestyle than a career or job. And the whole, “all your eggs in one basket” thing, can be tough (stressful).

[bigplayer]

There are 87 different LV casinos listed in the monthly Wong Report (CBJN). Of those maybe 40 of them have games worth playing and of those maybe 20 of them will take any sort of decent action. I'd say Vegas is mostly a toilet for blackjack and only the law of large numbers saves the town as a blackjack destination.

[KJ]

There are 87 different LV casinos listed in the monthly Wong Report (CBJN). Of those maybe 40 of them have games worth playing and of those maybe 20 of them will take any sort of decent action. I'd say Vegas is mostly a toilet for blackjack and only the law of large numbers saves the town as a blackjack destination.

Reminds me of one of my favorite bigplayer quotes: "the advantage of Vegas is quantity not quality".

If you think Vegas is a toilet for blackjack, easy solution....stay the hell away! Stay down there in 'dixie' with your rain and humidity and grits and giant mosquitoes.

[Bodarc]

and water!!

[moo321]

There are 87 different LV casinos listed in the monthly Wong Report (CBJN). Of those maybe 40 of them have games worth playing and of those maybe 20 of them will take any sort of decent action. I'd say Vegas is mostly a toilet for blackjack and only the law of large numbers saves the town as a blackjack destination.

I'd say 20 good games in one town is pretty good.

[biggg]

There are casinos all over the NE with good rules that will take decent action for a decent period of time. Unfortunately most tend to be very crowded.

The thing that makes this game not worth it to me is the travel required. Only a few casinos are so tolerant that they'd let you play for hours on end these days. So you are looking at short sessions which leads to travel time cutting heavily into EV. Even in LV you are looking at 10-15 mins between casinos.

[Three]

Yeah, stay away there is nothing to see in the NE.