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Thread: Harrahs Cherokee cheating at Blackjack

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    Harrahs Cherokee cheating at Blackjack

    This past Saturday night I witnessed along with my fiance and two of our best friends what I thought I would never see. We went to Harrahs Cherokee to play. After the first shoe I could tell something was amiss. After the second,being a counter, I told my fiance to get up from the table. The next 3 hours I wanted to make absolutely sure what I saw wasn't a fluke. The next shoe with one deck left had a running count of plus 26! All that came next were neutral cards and a few 2s 3s and aces.After the first two hours we asked a pit boss if we could speak to a manager. A young man came down and without letting him know we knew asked one simple question. On the next shoe since its a hand shuffled deck would you mind turning the cards all face up so we can see them? Of course he refused. So over the course of the next hour I managed to get several pics thank goodness of the entire table 6 hands in play with one lone Jack as the face card as just one example! The count after the entire shoe each and every time had a true count of plus 20 or more. I do have proof and witnesses to this and I need advice on what steps to take now. We did not loose thank goodness but a couple hundred before I caught it. But the other poor souls never had a chance. Any thoughts?
    Last edited by rivrat77; 06-02-2014 at 05:44 AM.

  2. #2


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    I went to this place recently on a sat night and noticed the same sort of thing, one night literally every shoe I would play the count would skyrocket. I wong shoes and I almost never left a shoe white rabbiting and I think I failed to enter one shoe I backcounted. In addition they would show new decks on the table but never in order which is not a procedure I have seen elsewhere.

    But I came back the next day and noticed a normal pattern of counts both up and down, but didn't actually play much as I was suspicious.

    I have played at dozens of casinos and have never suspected this elsewhere. Doubtful that harrahs would cheat but who knows.

  3. #3


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    Quote Originally Posted by biggg View Post
    I went to this place recently on a sat night and noticed the same sort of thing, one night literally every shoe I would play the count would skyrocket. I wong shoes and I almost never left a shoe white rabbiting and I think I failed to enter one shoe I backcounted. In addition they would show new decks on the table but never in order which is not a procedure I have seen elsewhere.

    But I came back the next day and noticed a normal pattern of counts both up and down, but didn't actually play much as I was suspicious.

    I have played at dozens of casinos and have never suspected this elsewhere. Doubtful that harrahs would cheat but who knows.
    Well it being owned by Caesars yea you would think so of course. However. In NC there is no gaming commission except you guessed it the Cherokee Nation. Its mathematically impossible for a shoe to end with a plus 20 or better count every single time. Period. Like I said I do have several pics that I was able to sneak to prove what Im saying is true plus 3 witnesses as well. Everywhere else is also state regulated too. If I had not been on a reservation I would have walked up to the table and said next shuffle can we please see the cards? Not knowing under their law I didnt in fear of being arrested for trespassing. If it were a fair game why did the manager refuse to let me see the cards all face up? Its a hand shuffled shoe so hey if you have nothing to hide turn em up. The answer was no of course. Yes they cheated everyone. Yes it was a stacked deck. Can prove it. Now what?

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    I am about 80-90 pct sure they shorted the shoes there that sat night I played. What can I do about it? Nothing but I won't play there again. If I hadn't been playing rated I would have asked them to spread the cards like you did.

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    Excellent stuff rivrat, I commend you for doing that. I'm sure many other casinos do this as well. Time to get these guys caught, and I really hope you win and take it to higher authority. I have no clue though what your next step should be. Maybe talk to Cherokee Nation.

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    Im just glad I was able to get solid proof of it as well.

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    I'm really starting to get paranoid of playing blackjack. I feel many casinos are starting to cheat. Something has to be done.

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    They need to legalize gambling in more states and give these casinos some fair
    competition.

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    Ive researched it. The FBI can handle it since this is a federal case. This is one major scandal for Caesars. Why does a multi billion dollar company have to resort to cheating low stakes players? I would say that they probably have no clue whats going on but I assure you as of today they will.

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    Yall it was so absurd I cant see how everyone couldnt notice. Drinking and not knowing I would say had a ton to do with it. A plus 26 count with one deck left!!! Every single card from that point on pretty much should have been a face card. Period. If I ever had a running count in Vegas of plus 26 I would bet my private parts on the remaining shoe!!

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    It wasnt just that shoe either. It stayed, which it had to, over 20 the entire night.

  12. #12


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    I had it happen to me multiple times playing Spanish. Absolutely way to many shoes with very high counts at the cut card. Got beat pretty bad - I really have a lot of trouble believing that the particular store was cheating - still have trouble - but I do not play that store anymore.

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    I doubt Caesars would go this far just to increase hold. What would make more sense would be to have a corrupt manager. They would short shoes on a busy night, then put extra tens in the deck on another day when their confederates are playing. You could take millions out of a place and no one would ever suspect it. At most casinos procedures would prevent this but not here I guess.

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