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Thread: How to make a 1-8 bet spread look like 1-4 in Blackjack?

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    How to make a 1-8 bet spread look like 1-4 in Blackjack?

    The purpose of this question is for cover betting. I want to avoid being detected as a counter. May I please ask you experts about ideas on how you would approach this? I was planning on spreading to multiples hands to make 1-8 bet spread look like 1-4.

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    Senior Member bigplayer's Avatar
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    Bet 2 Units on the first hand after a shuffle is the best known method. Of course you're not really spreading 1-8 anymore, it has a net value of about a 1-6 spread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigplayer View Post
    Bet 2 Units on the first hand after a shuffle is the best known method. Of course you're not really spreading 1-8 anymore, it has a net value of about a 1-6 spread.
    With a 1-6 spread one will need to backcount and use wong in/wong out aggressively to make a multi-deck game profitable.

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    Senior Member bigplayer's Avatar
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    1-6 will not get the money on shoes unless you're using a strict Wonging strategy. Most players spread anywhere from 1-14 to 1-80 on shoes (1-16/1-20 tends to be a good sweet spot) with what's called a "White Rabbit" approach where you start at the shuffle and then change tables or sit out whenever you reach a predetermined exit point (usually around when the house has a 1.0% to 2.0% greater advantage against you. Even a 1-8 spread with no cover is not sufficient to beat a shoe game unless you're able to backcount and enter only in positive situations combined with abandoning the shoe when the count drops.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigplayer View Post
    1-6 will not get the money on shoes unless you're using a strict Wonging strategy. Most players spread anywhere from 1-14 to 1-80 on shoes (1-16/1-20 tends to be a good sweet spot) with what's called a "White Rabbit" approach where you start at the shuffle and then change tables or sit out whenever you reach a predetermined exit point (usually around when the house has a 1.0% to 2.0% greater advantage against you. Even a 1-8 spread with no cover is not sufficient to beat a shoe game unless you're able to backcount and enter only in positive situations combined with abandoning the shoe when the count drops.
    Quite vague to say 1-8 cant beat a shoe game. What you should say is 1-8 isn't worthwhile in most cases. According to CVCX, even a 1-2 playall can beat a shoe game, question is you'll be making pennies

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    Is it more or less conspicuous if you play two hands and have more conservative spread per hand?
    This is with wonging out.

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    Senior Member bigplayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahjooma View Post
    Is it more or less conspicuous if you play two hands and have more conservative spread per hand?
    This is with wonging out.
    It's neither more nor less conspicuous. The casino just doesn't care. What they do look at are people who bounce from one hand to two hands with the count but on shoes this barely raises an eyebrow because the count does not fluctuate much from round to round. Generally you should just play 2 hands all the time but if they make you bet 2x the table minimum to play 2 spots then start with 1 hand and play 1 hand until you get a 1% edge or so and then spread to two hands. This will get you heat on pitch games but not on shoes. Other players hurt you more in plus counts than they help you in minus counts so you want to be sure to be playing two hands in positive counts to get your fair share of those rounds.

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    Senior Member Jabberwocky's Avatar
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    Why does Kevin Blackwood essentially advise doing the exact opposite?
    Vincit Qui Patitur

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    Senior Member Jabberwocky's Avatar
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    I am a stalwart advocate of the Grifter Gambit.
    Vincit Qui Patitur

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwocky View Post
    I am a stalwart advocate of the Grifter Gambit.
    I took a quick look at this Gambit. Interesting... but doesn't it apply only to heads-up play?

    In this case, you can relax and enjoy your advantage at plus counts one hand at a time. When more players are at the table, you don't have such a luxury, do you?

    Is that it or I got everything backwards?
    Life's true face is the skull.” - Nikos Kazantzakis

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigplayer View Post
    1-6 will not get the money on shoes unless you're using a strict Wonging strategy. Most players spread anywhere from 1-14 to 1-80 on shoes (1-16/1-20 tends to be a good sweet spot) with what's called a "White Rabbit" approach where you start at the shuffle and then change tables or sit out whenever you reach a predetermined exit point (usually around when the house has a 1.0% to 2.0% greater advantage against you. Even a 1-8 spread with no cover is not sufficient to beat a shoe game unless you're able to backcount and enter only in positive situations combined with abandoning the shoe when the count drops.
    Yes, a strict wonging strategy is what I mean when I said using a 1-6 bet spread. I think using a 1-16 or 1-80 bet spread along with the White Rabbit technique will give you over 1.50% advantage.

    Even a 1-8 spread with no cover is not sufficient to beat a shoe game unless you're able to backcount.

    I think a 1-8 spread could beat shoe games if the deck penetration is over 80% along with the White Rabbit technique in six and eight deck shoe with good rules. I will do a complete simulation and find out.
    Last edited by seriousplayer; 05-25-2014 at 07:03 PM.

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    Senior Member Aslan's Avatar
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    I recently began a DD game with $10 bets which was the min of the table. The count turned positive and I bet $50, which I held throughout the deal which stayed positive. I overheard the dealer alert the pit boss that I had jumped my bet 5 times. After the next shuffle I began betting $25. The count went north but not yet plus and I continued betting $25. When the count went plus I bet $75 and kept it there until the end where it was still positive. I won $75, actually $82.50 before I tipped the dealer $7.50 (call me crazy, but I had just eaten a food comp worth nearly $150 and I was in a good mood plus I wanted to ensure longevity at this place I like to play especially after hearing that dealer indicate that I might be counting). Was I spreading 5 times, 7 1/2 times, or 3 times? I'm not sure, but I would have returned to $10 if things had gone too far south.

    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 - 8/23/10... “Life’s most urgent question is: what are you doing for others?” — Martin Luther King, Jr.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwocky View Post
    I am a stalwart advocate of the Grifter Gambit.
    Anybody is allow to correct me if I am wrong. From what I understand the Grifter Gambit betting strategy is a card eating strategy. Some called it a three hand betting strategy. When I first studied the technique it start out playing three hands to eat up cards at negative counts flat betting. When the count turn advantageous the bettor will drop to one hand betting the optimal amount relative to the count. This strategy will require a bigger bankroll but it is a good strategy.

    Sometimes it is hard to apply this strategy because casinos nowadays require 2x table min when spreading to two hands and 5xtable min when spread to three hands.
    Last edited by seriousplayer; 05-25-2014 at 07:23 PM.

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