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Thread: Another taking a hail mary shot on a small bankroll thread, please weigh in

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    Exclamation Another taking a hail mary shot on a small bankroll thread, please weigh in

    My motivation for this post is more for advice/criticisms, and less should I do it, because it's a life journey I want to take, would regret not doing it, and am ok with it not working out. Taking my shot at trying to play full time on what I know is too small a recommended bank.

    First my situation: Debt free, no kids/wife, youngish. Recently resigned from job a couple weeks ago making 17/hr. 4 days/wk, figure if it doesn't work there's tons of shitty jobs out there I can get, not leaving an 80k a year job here and I am eligible for rehire. Located in Las Vegas. My apartment lease at $655/month ends May 31st.

    My play: Have about 18k liquid built up from about 2k one year ago, have been sizing my bets off a 15 k bank spread 10-125, 10-150 or 15-150 on 65-75% pen. DD games. Obviously I play pretty short sessions, as the spread is overly aggressive and attracts some attention, but I value the higher edge. This level draws heat faster than the 5-75 I had been doing months ago. Then I played short sessions without attention, now I play short sessions but draw attention lol. I also play video poker at about a half dozen places with strong mailers from a 2% to 4.8% edge depending on the place, adds up to about 800/month EV.

    Obviously cutting expenses as much as necessary is going to be vital to my chance of success. Promo chasing/bonus whoring is going to have to be a bigger part of my play, but I do not know where to draw the line with this as there are things like free bingo and slot or video poker tournaments that appear to have little EV and may take up more time than they are worth, imposing opportunity costs. I am going to be getting an out of state (CA) mailbox and changing my mailing address with several downtown casinos and the Boyd off strip places. I occasionally play in card rooms in CA so I can grab my mailers then.

    The Plan:
    Cut bank to 10k BJ with $10-$90 or $10-125 spread DD, 7k for vp/living

    Living: My plan is to live out of hotels and not pay for a single room or meal for months by playing video poker. I know 9/6 JoB and NSUD strategies well and will learn 10/7 Double Bonus for this venture. Research tells me it can be done. Through researching message boards, available games/promos, I've found that with a rotation of downtown casinos, Boyd off strip casinos and the about 5 nights a month I'm getting in my mailers already from my other stores,if you don't count the mailers I'm already getting I should be able to play with a break even to 0.4% edge as well as not pay for rooms or food.
    The concerns here are the variance in video poker, and if I play at quarters it may take up too much time for me to have enough hours to play a good amount of BJ to accumulate EV. If I play at the 50 cent level, I will have plenty of time to play BJ but am taking on more risk than I probably should with the 7k v.p. bankroll.

    It goes without saying that if I run bad early, my chances are slim. Having a network of other AP's would also be helpful, but as of now I have virtually no network so I need to count on my own skills.


    Expenses:

    Multiple location Planet Fitness membership: $20/month. Necessary for access to showers, as when I travel to CA to play there, and possibly every once in a while otherwise, I may be spending nights sleeping in my midsize car.

    Storage unit: $43/month 2 P.O. boxes/private mailboxes: $30ish/month Phone: $89/month Laundry: $20ish/month Gas: $400ish?
    Tips for meals: $100ish?
    Insurance is already prepaid through end of year.

    Total monthly expenses: Approximately $702.

    Any advice or criticism of my plan for me as I take on this life journey to build a legit bank or get ground down in the process is appreciated.

  2. #2
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    Contact KJ or Aslan, they reside in LV and may be willing to put you up and do some team play.

    Ouchez

  3. #3


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    Spending nights sleeping in a mid sized car? That sounds a little strange. Although I did it once, in a ski-resort parking lot in France. And I still remember that. Sounds as if getting some advice from older more experienced people might be a good idea. Unexpected expenses are lurking about, sure to hit: health care, police tickets, medical care and illnesses, perhaps might have to replace a car tire, or battery; might get robbed or break a bone or get an infection. The inevitable girlfriend and there's money to be spent there. Just $15 on a bag of rice could supply 100 nutritious meals, especially if combined with cheap vegetables. No pets? No booze?
    That song, "You had better think about it!" However, it's a bold plan, and makes me wish I was younger once again. There's a boldness to it.

  4. #4


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    Sounds exciting.

    Do you play rated? That is a massive spread for DD. I can't really say how much cumulative heat you will receive, as I've never tried playing a spread like that. You might consider mixing in the 25 minimum games also, and keeping your max bet in the same range. If I'm not mistaken, your EV won't suffer all that much, especially if you wong out of some negative counts, which is ideal with the short session approach.

    The bonus chasing is a really nice supplement, as there is little to no variance on much of it. I don't know much about specifics, like how much EV can be accumulated, or what promos are worth the effort, but the process of discovering sounds like fun. There are other considerations with moving up to playing at the 50 cent level, with regards to hitting royals. You've probably already considered that.

    Do you play/intend to play poker at all?

  5. #5


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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiestastation View Post
    Sounds exciting.

    Do you play rated? That is a massive spread for DD. I can't really say how much cumulative heat you will receive, as I've never tried playing a spread like that. You might consider mixing in the 25 minimum games also, and keeping your max bet in the same range. If I'm not mistaken, your EV won't suffer all that much, especially if you wong out of some negative counts, which is ideal with the short session approach.

    The bonus chasing is a really nice supplement, as there is little to no variance on much of it. I don't know much about specifics, like how much EV can be accumulated, or what promos are worth the effort, but the process of discovering sounds like fun. There are other considerations with moving up to playing at the 50 cent level, with regards to hitting royals. You've probably already considered that.

    Do you play/intend to play poker at all?
    Hell no I don't play rated at that spread lol, I get my free buffets from vp. I have run Sims on the quarter games, and don't like the ror. Ev isn't much lower but the CE certainly is. I used to play some poker a few years back, but I'm not passionate about it at all, and doesn't seem like something you get good at without being passionate.

  6. #6
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    I think your approach is pretty darn good, mcallister3200. You are going in knowing the risks, knowing that you are taking a shot. Seems like you have done some homework as far as preparation and you have minimal expenses, no one to care for and support but yourself. That is all good stuff. Not crazy about the sleeping in your car part, even for a night or two. Especially during summer months in Vegas....that's just brutal.

    I am a little concerned about the VP angle. VP can be rough at times with big variance involved. Also, VP can be very addicting. You really need to maintain your discipline and focus. I would go the quarter route. It will lower variance, at a cost of only time, and you have time, that's not a pressing issue.


  7. #7
    Senior Member Jabberwocky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcallister3200 View Post
    My motivation for this post is more for advice/criticisms, and less should I do it, because it's a life journey I want to take, would regret not doing it, and am ok with it not working out. Taking my shot at trying to play full time on what I know is too small a recommended bank.

    First my situation: Debt free, no kids/wife, youngish. Recently resigned from job a couple weeks ago making 17/hr. 4 days/wk, figure if it doesn't work there's tons of shitty jobs out there I can get, not leaving an 80k a year job here and I am eligible for rehire. Located in Las Vegas. My apartment lease at $655/month ends May 31st.

    My play: Have about 18k liquid built up from about 2k one year ago, have been sizing my bets off a 15 k bank spread 10-125, 10-150 or 15-150 on 65-75% pen. DD games. Obviously I play pretty short sessions, as the spread is overly aggressive and attracts some attention, but I value the higher edge. This level draws heat faster than the 5-75 I had been doing months ago. Then I played short sessions without attention, now I play short sessions but draw attention lol. I also play video poker at about a half dozen places with strong mailers from a 2% to 4.8% edge depending on the place, adds up to about 800/month EV.

    Obviously cutting expenses as much as necessary is going to be vital to my chance of success. Promo chasing/bonus whoring is going to have to be a bigger part of my play, but I do not know where to draw the line with this as there are things like free bingo and slot or video poker tournaments that appear to have little EV and may take up more time than they are worth, imposing opportunity costs. I am going to be getting an out of state (CA) mailbox and changing my mailing address with several downtown casinos and the Boyd off strip places. I occasionally play in card rooms in CA so I can grab my mailers then.

    The Plan:
    Cut bank to 10k BJ with $10-$90 or $10-125 spread DD, 7k for vp/living

    Living: My plan is to live out of hotels and not pay for a single room or meal for months by playing video poker. I know 9/6 JoB and NSUD strategies well and will learn 10/7 Double Bonus for this venture. Research tells me it can be done. Through researching message boards, available games/promos, I've found that with a rotation of downtown casinos, Boyd off strip casinos and the about 5 nights a month I'm getting in my mailers already from my other stores,if you don't count the mailers I'm already getting I should be able to play with a break even to 0.4% edge as well as not pay for rooms or food.
    The concerns here are the variance in video poker, and if I play at quarters it may take up too much time for me to have enough hours to play a good amount of BJ to accumulate EV. If I play at the 50 cent level, I will have plenty of time to play BJ but am taking on more risk than I probably should with the 7k v.p. bankroll.

    It goes without saying that if I run bad early, my chances are slim. Having a network of other AP's would also be helpful, but as of now I have virtually no network so I need to count on my own skills.


    Expenses:

    Multiple location Planet Fitness membership: $20/month. Necessary for access to showers, as when I travel to CA to play there, and possibly every once in a while otherwise, I may be spending nights sleeping in my midsize car.

    Storage unit: $43/month 2 P.O. boxes/private mailboxes: $30ish/month Phone: $89/month Laundry: $20ish/month Gas: $400ish?
    Tips for meals: $100ish?
    Insurance is already prepaid through end of year.

    Total monthly expenses: Approximately $702.

    Any advice or criticism of my plan for me as I take on this life journey to build a legit bank or get ground down in the process is appreciated.
    You should stick with LS games to reduce the flux; when your bank is tight, LS is a godsend. Be a demon about wonging out. You just can't allow yourself to play too many negative hands. Lastly I emphatically exhort that YOU play HEADS UP!
    Vincit Qui Patitur

  8. #8
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    Mac,

    Older married guys like me fantasize about going back with AP skills and doing what you are about to do. Excellent advice given. It sounds like you have the balls to “go for it” and getting tips here will save you from some mistakes. Evaluate each session and day and you get keep improving. You will need to continually hone your cover act and have FUN. We look forward to a report and wish you good fortune. Don’t sleep in your car. Protect your bankroll.

    Baberuth

  9. #9


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    With your permission, I will copy paste your post to someone I know. This individual came to my general locale about 3 or 4 years or so ago with a make it or break it bankroll of about 20k. He got lucky, and now has a bankroll of I think about 150 k. He may well have have some good pointers for you. Pretty sure he is a not a member here, or on bj21. He plays blackjack and also has a specific slot strategy, with apparently low variance on the slot angle.

  10. #10
    Senior Member bigplayer's Avatar
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    Success depends on not having any real overhead to your cost of living. Expenses are the biggest threat to small bankrolls.

  11. #11


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    Hey!
    Cool post!
    Couple ideas to help with expenses...
    Swap car for a used camper van for the occasional sleep over at WalMart situation or a trip to Reno area once in a while. Share the storage unit with someone. Get Republic Wireless cell phone for as low as $5 per month if you're near WiFi a lot or $10 if you're not. Get a small hand washer machine for laundry and rack dry in Vegas heat. Get a bike to save all kinds of auto expenses.
    Add shoe games to your skill set to increase options.
    Sounds very promising. I would definitely go for it!

    Best of luck!

  12. #12
    Senior Member njrich's Avatar
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    Best of Luck!
    Beware the fury of a patient man.

  13. #13


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    I went full time almost exactly 1 year ago with 8.5k bankroll I built up from about 1k on a promotion the 4 months prior with a little backcounting and learning other techniques the last month or so. The first few months were the most carefree and the naivety in hindsight is quite comical. Looking back I had no idea what I was getting into, but I might be able to advise some. I was in a similar situation, gave up school and an 18/hr job for the summer just to see. I don't count cards, but I think many aspects of making it with a small bankroll apply. I'll talk about my opinions looking back even though it may not be the best option for you. What if you didn't play vp as much for comps and set aside that money to live on? Picking up a place with a roomate isn't too high and having access to a kitchen can make your expenses very low. Foods like oatmeal, rice, pb, whatever protein is on sale, frozen veggies etc doesn't cost too much and it would take the pressure off of basic necessities.

    Every game I play is hundreds of miles away from home. I was keeping my apartment for the summer, and if I failed, I had help to get picked back up and continue with the school route. I had the idea of spending nights in my car on the road when I couldn't get comps and getting the gym membership for showers, but I'm very glad I didn't go for that. (I did however take a few naps on drives at rest stops or walmarts that would have otherwise been too long for one shot.) Fortunately I had a fresh card with TR and they are good with the rooms on new cards, and getting cheap hotels (Motel 6, Super 8, Red Roof) drastically changed the weight of expenses on my BR. Many hotels do their audit around 2am, and if you show up after that, you can get 2 nights for the price of 1. If you show up at 4 am Thursday and say you want to check out Saturday morning, a lot of times the rate will be for one night. Some hotels wont do this and some clerks just want to be the man. Sometimes I would swap hotels in the same location to stay for nights for less than 100$ sometimes. I no longer check out in the same location to take full advantage in favor of convience, but I still try to get an extra night when possible. If you are nice you can usually get a AAA discount even if you aren't a member. (Don't overreach if they are giving you 2 for 1, or just get an actual AAA membership)

    As far as the gambling, mistakes happen and teach important lessons. Learning how to be prepared for them and have them cause the least impact to bankroll and exposure is a skill that isn't teachable, but will help you greatly. There will be many highs and lows even after you think you've seen everything, and being self aware can really help you channel them into progress.

    Developing relationships will help your success and enjoyment, but when it comes to actual playing you need to be very selective, in my opinion.

    Lastly, work hard. I think this is really the most important thing. Working smart is good, but it's the working hard that will help you grind it up. It's something I'm bad about, but it is really important to a small BR. You need to get your BR into action on good games to grow it and make consistent money.

    One year later, I have a solid 5 figure bankroll which is just starting to feel like it can survive without babying and very meticulous management. I've been a lot of new places that I thoroughly enjoy(ed), and some places I wouldn't go if you payed me. Paying rent on that same apartment is a little sweeter now though. Enough of that.



    I know I'm a bit all over the place, but I hope it helps. Best of luck.

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