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Thread: Craps Techniques

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    Craps Techniques

    I've been looking into AP techniques recently. When I read about dice control in Beyond Counting I always wonder does the technique actually work. After looking into the technique more I came across a video name Breaking Vegas: "Dice Dominator". It seem like to master the dice dominator technique one will need to have a very good instructor that teach the techniques. Also, not only does it require practice. It will require prefect practice. This is because the muscles have memory. If we learn something wrong physically we will need to erase those muscles memories by relearning them. Does any of the AP knows anybody in the video below? Are they anyways to learn the dice control techniques correctly today?


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bhno_F9vZcw

  2. #2


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    Quote Originally Posted by seriousplayer View Post
    I've been looking into AP techniques recently. When I read about dice control in Beyond Counting I always wonder does the technique actually work. After looking into the technique more I came across a video name Breaking Vegas: "Dice Dominator". It seem like to master the dice dominator technique one will need to have a very good instructor that teach the techniques. Also, not only does it require practice. It will require prefect practice. This is because the muscles have memory. If we learn something wrong physically we will need to erase those muscles memories by relearning them. Does any of the AP knows anybody in the video below? Are they anyways to learn the dice control techniques correctly today?


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bhno_F9vZcw
    No.
    Yes.
    Yes, but not by any human.

    It's possible, only if you think it's possible.
    Maman died today. Or yesterday maybe, I don't know.

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    Have you learned anything yet? IIRC, not long ago you were posting trying to figure out how carnival games were being beaten, then even though everyone told you they're beatable (and strategies are written in Grosjean's book), you were still arguing saying they can't be beaten (huh??). Have you stepped foot in a casino yet? Go out there and make the money.
    "Everyone wants to be rich, but nobody wants to work for it." -Ryan Howard [The Office]

  4. #4
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    IMO, History Channel should never have filmed that episode.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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    Quote Originally Posted by RollingStoned View Post
    Have you learned anything yet? IIRC, not long ago you were posting trying to figure out how carnival games were being beaten, then even though everyone told you they're beatable (and strategies are written in Grosjean's book), you were still arguing saying they can't be beaten (huh??). Have you stepped foot in a casino yet? Go out there and make the money.
    I am not arguing whether or not carnival games are beatable. I am just asking how to do it. It seem like you know how to do it. If so do you want to share?

  6. #6
    Senior Member Bodarc's Avatar
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    You may want to watch this video from "Gambling W An Edge". You are looking at a long term, expensive learning curve and a short term life span according to the guest.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REZgF55WPng

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    Quote Originally Posted by seriousplayer View Post
    I am not arguing whether or not carnival games are beatable. I am just asking how to do it. It seem like you know how to do it. If so do you want to share?
    As has been said multiple times, it's in Grosjean's book (the book [I believe] you claim to have read, or at least "that" part).
    "Everyone wants to be rich, but nobody wants to work for it." -Ryan Howard [The Office]

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    If you want to learn the games of Craps you need to go to a Craps forum...I found some very good advice on Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum...

  9. #9
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    The Golden Touch crew to don't maximize profits. They didn't want me or my crew at their table because we bet to maximize profits and the GT crew just wanted to grind out a profit flat betting. I have played with most of the GT crowd at one point or another. They teach throwing the dice so both die do the same thing which is almost impossible. What I had been doing for a long time before their class was on my radar tried to eliminate or reduce the odds of the 2 sides that are perpendicular to the kenetic energy of the throw of the dice coming up while increasing the probability of the 4 sides in line with the kenetic energy of the throw. It is a feat that is very hard but allows more room to be successful.

    Back in the hey day of DC all craps tables had the exact same landing surface so any craps table was the same as another. After the casino analyzing enough rolls by individual shooters they determined that they were affecting the probabilities of the dice and started making different landing surfaces so the dice would react differently at different craps tables. A physically demanding skill such as DC is hard enough to do on the same surface all the time. The GT crowd mostly were not actually getting any real influence of the dice that they could capitalize on. A few had the touch but most with a capital M were wannabes. They stuck to the low HE bets because all they focused on was lowering the incidence of rolling a 7. That doesn't necessarily make you an advantage roller if you can't keep the number you want to roll at or above expectation. Remember when you affect the probabilities of each number rolling you make a new probability distribution for each number. The combination of numbers that affect your bet make a new fair odds table.

    The best would take the long odds bets and play them because you could get the biggest edge with the new fair odds for the number given the new probability distribution. the trouble with that is they will ban you. Start hitting hop bets like crazy and see what happens. Anyway if the reaction of the dice on the surface you are throwing is different than on your practice craps table you will not know what the new fair odds table looks like. That would be like using an unbalanced system and not knowing the number of decks you are playing with and how many remain to be dealt. How would you bet to get an advantage? For that reason I stopped using DC a decade or more ago. Today you would need to have a favorite casino craps table that you play all the time. Or travel around and test each table to see if the dice behave like your practice table. Then at any time they might change the surface.

    I believe GT still has its course. I never took it but some in my old crew did and said they could teach it better than the GT guys did. That crew makes a ton of money teaching which is probably the lions share if not all their profits. If memory serves they charge around $2K/person. You can spot the ones that too the course at the tables pretty easy because everyone uses the same toss. Some are random rollers, some can control the dice but make it more likely you will lose, some have modest control that can be used to advantage and a few are really good and you can make a lot of money on them. Try to make freinds with the latter people so you can play together on another day.

  10. #10


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    On youtube I saw some slow motion vids of someone trying to shoot in a controlled manner. On many rolls the dice seemed perfectly on axis with a great landing point and the end result was still totally random. There may be special types of tables more conducive to this style of play but I was convinced it was voodoo at that point.

    I also can't believe that you wouldn't be backed off doing this if you won. It has to be at least as obvious as counting cards.

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    I've ben backed off more in one day playing craps than in 30 years of BJ play. I found that you can say things that help a lot at keeping from being backed off. Things like when I am getting ucky it makes me really look like I know what I am doing but smart crews realize that I am off just as many times and it is just the swings in the game. This is actually why the teaching thing is so effective at generating cash. If your short term results are on the bad side of variance the give advice on your technique. If you then have short term variance one the successful side they tell you that you are getting the hang of it and to keep practicing. In reality it was all mostly variance but people think they are learning something. Rare individuals come along that can actually do it but most just take the favorable variance as proof they can do it and the other side of variance they just blow off. You watch them shoot and you can tell. A few rare individuals are extremely impressive every time they shoot the dice but for the most part people have a weak control of the dice if any at all. Then if they have some control they don't necessarily know how to use it to their advantage.

    When I was doing it I practiced 3 hours a day on my craps table. I kept records of each throw. I used different colored dice to track the results of the left and right die individually. I grouped the results in groups of 24. Random results would expect 16 of the 4 sides that were on axis and 6 of the two sides that were not on axis. I had outstanding control of the right die getting an average of 19 to 20 of the sides that indicated successfully rolling a desired side with a range from 18 to 24. Unfortunately I could barely control the left die. I never got less than expectation on that die but usually only had 17 or 18 successes in each group of 24 with a range of 16 to 20. It was enough to get an advantage but if I could have controlled the left die as well as the right die I could have bet the big payoff bets and made some real money. I concentrated on the place bet on the 6 and 8. If you are really good the dice just plug and don't bounce a lot of the time. I rarely pulled that one off. If I had no control of the left die it would have been tough to use the very strong right die control to an advantage.

    All the GT guys seem to talk about is their seven rolling rate and length of their rolls without sevening out. What is more important is your rate of rolling winners. If you aren't winning long rolls and avoiding the 7 aren't going to get you the chips.

  12. #12
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    A few words of advice that helped me the most...

    "Master the game before you attempt to master the toss".

    "The one thing. The single thing. Stick with a toss. Too many times than I can count, someone starts out with some toss, be it OH, UH, 3 finger, 1 finger, whatever. 2 months later, when they don't have an SRR of 28, they decide to change to the toss-flavor of the week. Wow! This is great! Results are fantastic. 3 months later the honeymoon is over. They change their toss again. And again. Before they know it a year has passed, and they're frustrated that they aren't making headway.

    Find a toss you're comfortable with and stick with it for 6 months to a year. You WILL see better results. Perfect is as much as possible. Once you can throw one style really well, I mean REALLY well, you will be able to try other tosses. I have 3 go-to tosses after all these years. One for SL, one for SR and one for straight out. But because I really have mastered those tosses, I could probably pick up just about any toss that someone uses in a few days".

    Download Bone Tracker software...It is free

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    Did Stanford Wong take a class from Golden Touch someone who brought his book "Wong on Dice" claim that he has taken a class from Golden Touch. Don't want to be noisy but just curious.

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