Sorting for dealer advantage... nah.
Now short shoes.... that's a different question.
I think that this thread should be moved to voodoo section. You guys are over thinking everything. And the casinos (not including a few dealers here n there) have not cheated or rigged anything for about 20 years now, unless you count 6:5 BJ. Which is worse then cheating IMO.
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I don't think this has anything to do with the voodoo section. I'm raising a legitimate possibility. As I stated, these observations were made by several counters, some of whom had played this particular store for years prior. It all just seems too coincidental that these observations were all made at relatively the same time and in the clumps akin to those mentioned previously. I'm not sure about the USA (this is an Australian casino in question), but the BJ rules of this casino don't say anything about how the cards have to be shuffled, merely that:
4.1 The Shuffle
4.1.1 The cards will be shuffled so that they are randomly
intermixed:-
(a) Immediately prior to the start of play;
(b) When the cut card is exposed or drawn as the
first card of a new round;
(c) At the completion of the round of play in which
the cutting card is exposed;
(d) Immediately if, in the opinion of a Pit Boss (or
above), the cards are dealt in a sequence which
is abnormal.
(e) At other times (including where the cards have
been dropped or otherwise mishandled) when in
the opinion of a Pit Boss (or above) there is
reasonable cause to believe that a shuffle is
warranted; and
(f) Continuously where an approved continuous
shuffling machine is in use on the table.
So really, given an algorithm is used to control an ASM's shuffle, can any one shuffle be more random than another? Even if one favours the house? It's still random, to an extent.
Sure... many things are possible. Like flipping an unbiased coin 1,000,000 times and it landing on heads every time. It is possible... but does not happen. Casinos do not rig or cheat with ASM's. Yes, they can put them in any order or suit or whatever you want. But why? Why would they waste time? Why would they risk their brand? Their reputation? I highly doubt there is a "legitimate" possibility as to why they would do such things. I can think of one scenario actually... lol... If Bill Gates came in and wanted to play a no-max BJ game. And the owners of the casino were going to close up shop the very next day.Originally Posted by Koz84
I think I read it in BJA3 [but perhaps in a different book or online article]....there's a way to arrange a deck so the dealer wins every hand, in a heads up situation (1 player 1 hand). Doesn't matter where the player cuts, he will lose every hand, even if he makes un-ordinary hits or stays. There is one exception where the player would hit and end up with a push. Every other situation is a player loss.
Do casinos do this? Maybe there's one casino in some weird location that has a single deck game with an ASM shuffler that'll shuffle the cards in this way once every X shuffles when there's only 1 player playing 1 hand. I say 'maybe' as in....it's POSSIBLE, but kinda like the flipping a coin on heads 100 times in a row kind of possible.
As for sorting or clumping cards in ASMs so the tens and aces aren't near each other, or 789s are clumped and 23456s are clumped......it's possible. But I think there is too much that can "go wrong". Either the ASM distributors program the machine to do this clumping (which'd be illegal for them, which would be stupid), a boss or some kind of management would have to program the machine to do it (which would be bad....because when people [lets say pit boss] knows about this, it's very hard to keep them from keeping the secret from anyone or ratting out the casino). The casino already has an edge on these games....and the way most people play, they have a huge edge. It's also tough for a casino to keep players returning who are constantly losing a lot. The casino is better off milking money from their players than slaughtering them for a short term win. But then again, we see over and over again how casinos tend to avoid the "smart" answer but choose to do stupid things....so who knows.
"Everyone wants to be rich, but nobody wants to work for it." -Ryan Howard [The Office]
The casino doesn't need to rig an ASM for an advantage. They already have the advantage. Do you think Shufflemaster has a backdoor to their shuffllers that a casino employee can switch on for cheating? Do you think casinos have hackers in-house who can arrange for cold decks? You guys are dreaming unless you're talking about Russia or Bulgaria, but if you're in the U.S. it's random and random does not mean evenly distributed. Clumping is part of randomness.
I personally don't think that most US casinos would take the chance of being caught using this technique. I'm simply pointing out that it is possible to rig the machines. There are some casinos that aren't closely watched by strict gaming commissions. It's up to each of us to decide how far we trust each of them.
My local store is Native ran (sovereign nation) and I don't question the integrity of their game but it appears there are unscrupulous operators in some locations.
It is technically possible that an ASM could be re-engineered to shuffle in a non-random way, but the machines cannot be programmed that way as delivered from the factory. They check all of the cards to see if any are missing, if a card with a different color back has been placed in the machine, if the cut card has accidentally been left in the deck, or if a card or cards has significant damage. There is no record of the order of the cards AFAIK.
What these machines do is randomize the cards better than a hand shuffle would do and speed up the game compared to hand shuffling. That's the big reason the casinos use them.
Some models can put the cards in new card order, but this takes longer than a shuffle would take.
Is that a claim you make based on your vast experience dealing with Shufflemaster's machines?
Or on something you read on the internet of which you probably only understood the title?
Don't take this as an insult, but when you know nothing about something, it is better to keep your mouth shut.
I will tell you what: I can give you unlimited access to several of this machines for unlimited time.
I'll give you 20:1 on whatever stakes you chose if you can rig the machine to cheat in any sort of way that would generate a casino advantage.
You can bring an army of engineers with you if you want.
Of course the machine cannot be all disarmed and pluged to 10 computers.
It has to look the exact same way as it does when new and being used in a casino.
What do you say?
Now, before you lose your money, try using your brain for a minute instead of repeating like a parrot what you read on other boards and try to imagine what could happen if you ACTUALLY acomplished this task.
Not to hard to imagine is it?
Im actually rooting for you on this one buddy.
We all are.
Last edited by bjarg; 05-13-2014 at 11:22 AM.
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