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Thread: early surrender vs a

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    early surrender vs a

    Searched online but couldnt find an answer. The game I play only allows early surrender vs ace. How much does that help that game in edge? 6d h17

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    http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/..._Rules_Set.htm

    According to Arnold Snyder's site the difference between ES and ES10 for 6 deck H17 is 0.72 - 0.24 = 0.48%

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    This is also combined with late so that would be .04%?

    Also. I dont have cvcx but if I were to get it can it simulate both early and late surrender as rules?
    Last edited by code red; 05-03-2014 at 07:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by code red View Post
    This is also combined with late so that would be .04%?
    According to Snyder's chart for 6 deck H17 in the link I gave it would be .09 for late surrender and .48 for ESA for 0.57%

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    ESA 6D H17 is worth 0.472. Conventional surrender vs. 9 and 10 is 0.065.

    Don

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    So .4% over all? Thanks don and t3

    Edit: just realized what yall meant. So my overall edge from surrender is .537%.
    Last edited by code red; 05-04-2014 at 01:03 AM.

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    Senior Member bigplayer's Avatar
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    For people spreading their bets with the count it's worth far more than it's basic strategy expectation which assumes flat betting. Your variance goes way down because you're surrendering a bunch bunch more often so you can actually afford to bet more at each count at your previous level of risk OR just enjoy the lower flux.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigplayer View Post
    For people spreading their bets with the count it's worth far more than it's basic strategy expectation which assumes flat betting. Your variance goes way down because you're surrendering a bunch bunch more often so you can actually afford to bet more at each count at your previous level of risk OR just enjoy the lower flux.
    Glad to hear that. Great insight. Theres a bunch of other rules that I havnt mentioned that will make this game worth betting over min at tc 1

    Random thought.. Would the insurance bet just be used if the insurance index was triggered or would i just want to stick with surrendering?

    Edit: revised a question
    Last edited by code red; 05-04-2014 at 01:10 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by code red View Post
    Also. I dont have cvcx but if I were to get it can it simulate both early and late surrender as rules?
    Yes, CVCX supports LS, ESvA and ESvTen.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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    LS the insurance is offered first. You take it if the index is exceeded. Then you surrender if the dealer doesn't have BJ and the index is exceeded. Losing the first decision doesn't change how the second decision is decided. It's been so long since I played ES but if the procedures allow you to do both you take all actions that your indices demand in the appropriate order. With ES 10 there is no insurance so it is a moot point. I see no reason you can't surrender half your bet against an ace and put another half on insurance. I am sure the house would encourage taking insurance. If the move is a red flag to the watchers and catchers may be another story. I have always taken insurance and surrendered after losing insurance if both indices are exceeded. Everyone just thought I was stupid if I lost insurance and then gave them the another half of my bet by surrendering for a net lose of one bet. Nobody was notified. The insurance end of it is the sweaty part. ESA has you surrendering most of your hands vs an ace just using BS if I remember right so adding that in shouldn't raise any red flags but you never no.
    Last edited by Three; 05-04-2014 at 06:46 AM.

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    Y'all have spoonfed me so far and I appreciate it. I know the BS ES but where can I find the indices? Is it included in professional blackjack by Wong?

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    Quote Originally Posted by code red View Post
    Y'all have spoonfed me so far and I appreciate it. I know the BS ES but where can I find the indices? Is it included in professional blackjack by Wong?
    It's in PBJ by Wong and you can generate them using CV-Data.

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