Shoe dealt blackjack in the UK.

**ummagumma** · 05-19-2018, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash

Blackjack Feign, et al

A few years ago I teamed up with a billionaire poker player in London.

I bare witness to the FACT that a [private] British casino MAY confiscate a player's

money on deposit, as well as accrued profits.

Do you really know what you're talking about ? What do you think this 'magical' term 'private' means in terms of casinos in the UK ?

Do you think 'private' casinos are something special ? And do you think these casinos are not governed by the Gambling Commission like every casino in the UK as indicated by member chucky baby ? They could only confiscate money if they suspect an illegal act and counting is not an illegal act and has never been shown to be so in the UK.

There's so much fake news spread in the US you guys don't know what's real or fake anymore.

Stop spreading these ridiculous rumours about things of which you have no knowledge.

**Three** · 05-19-2018, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by ummagumma

There's so much fake news spread in the US you guys don't know what's real or fake anymore.

You do realize that ZMF's tale is a first hand experience. You would get the most accurate account from his mouth. Far more accurate than any news cast. My take from hearing the story when it happened was they where sending a message that their action would not be taken anymore. If they didn't take action to assure the return of the seized funds they would have never seen their money again. Of course they were no longer admitted to the private clubs anymore. Their play was not illegal but like the other poker player, Ivey, greed got the best of the poker pro in spite of being told what not to do. The pro just had to do it. I guess the rich are really bad at following other peoples direction.

**chucky baby** · 05-19-2018, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by ummagumma

Do you really know what you're talking about ? What do you think this 'magical' term 'private' means in terms of casinos in the UK ?

Do you think 'private' casinos are something special ? And do you think these casinos are not governed by the Gambling Commission like every casino in the UK as indicated by member chucky baby ? They could only confiscate money if they suspect an illegal act and counting is not an illegal act and has never been shown to be so in the UK.

There's so much fake news spread in the US you guys don't know what's real or fake anymore.

Stop spreading these ridiculous rumours about things of which you have no knowledge.

In UK media I read re the famous poker player who got rumbled for allegedly using edge sorting skills in punto banco with the collusion of a partner who tricked the croupier into turning the cards to better accomplish the edge sorting skill. I understand it went to court and the court ruled against the poker player. Whatever the truth of this matter, I find it strange that Zenmaster would extrapolate this incident to make outlandish claims about British casinos being able to legally confiscate winnings AND deposits...that would be theft, my good man!!!

**Three** · 05-19-2018, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by chucky baby

I find it strange that Zenmaster would extrapolate this incident to make outlandish claims about British casinos being able to legally confiscate winnings AND deposits...that would be theft, my good man!!!

Can you people read. Long before Ivey ran into hi trouble in England ZMF had this happen in the private casinos there. I don't want to muck up the details by retelling what I heard right after the incident so many years ago. Or run the risk of saying something ZMF doesn't want revealed. It happened. You can rewrite some fake news to make yourselves feel better but it happened and well before Ivey made his play in London. I was told the details right after it happened. IF ZMF wants to educate you with the details that is his business. If I was him I wouldn't divulge anything further to the local ingrates that could benefit from his experience.

**BlackjackFeign** · 05-20-2018, 04:21 AM

So to sum up it did happen to a professional

**chucky baby** · 05-20-2018, 04:32 AM

Originally Posted by Three

Can you people read. Long before Ivey ran into hi trouble in England ZMF had this happen in the private casinos there. I don't want to muck up the details by retelling what I heard right after the incident so many years ago. Or run the risk of saying something ZMF doesn't want revealed. It happened. You can rewrite some fake news to make yourselves feel better but it happened and well before Ivey made his play in London. I was told the details right after it happened. IF ZMF wants to educate you with the details that is his business. If I was him I wouldn't divulge anything further to the local ingrates that could benefit from his experience.

Aha..so it was a personal experience of ZMF. Well I certainly can't comment on his "personal experience". I have played under many aliases in UK over a period of 40 years and have only had one encounter in a small casino in Nottingham where they cashed in my buy-in chips but would not honour my winnings. I immediately called in the local police who took me aside and gave me the number of the Gambling Commission. One phone call from the Gambling Commission to the casino's lawyer was all it took to get my winnings honoured within days.
I know of a case about 5 years ago where a high-rolling Russian AP encountered the same thing as me in a London club. ..buy-in returned but not winnings. Again resolved within a week (in this case the casino's excuse that he was counting cards and the casino considered it illegal was thrown out by the Gambling Commission. At one time the Gambling Commission even recommended card counting to the public in an effort to improve their chance of winning!!

So please, listen to the advice from AP's local to the UK.

**Three** · 05-20-2018, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by chucky baby

So please, listen to the advice from AP's local to the UK.

You confirmed two more instances. Imagine someone that didn't know to fight to get their buy-in and winnings. Would they get it back?

**BoSox** · 05-20-2018, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by chucky baby

So please, listen to the advice from AP's local to the UK.

Seriously, I thought there was only two, Francis Salmon, and John May.

**chucky baby** · 05-20-2018, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by BoSox

Seriously, I thought there was only two, Francis Salmon, and John May.

I can assure you that there are plenty of AP's in UK. Over the years I've trained at least 50...many on my own teams. My estimate of current British AP's would be at least 75.
Take a trip over here and see for yourself. I have no idea who is Francis Salmon and John May..at least not under those names.

**ummagumma** · 05-20-2018, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by chucky baby

I can assure you that there are plenty of AP's in UK. Over the years I've trained at least 50...many on my own teams. My estimate of current British AP's would be at least 75.
Take a trip over here and see for yourself. I have no idea who is Francis Salmon and John May..at least not under those names.

I think it may be good to let those who wish to believe a blackjack player's money can be confiscated on a whim to believe just that. More APs coming over here would only hasten the demise of a game which is struggling to maintain non-csm games....

On another note chucky baby, I've also been playing in the UK for the past 40 years. Perhaps we know each other

**ZenMaster_Flash** · 05-20-2018, 02:12 PM

In my case, I tried to keep my rich partner "under the radar"
but his money was still confiscated. It was in a private casino
on that occasion, the sum was (high) six "figures." It became clear
that had it not been for his presence on British TV he would
have had to hire a lawyer and waste a great deal of time in
and out of court.

The Casino Manager was quite sore as he smirked and all but spat
as he mockingly said: "Our experts say that you were very lucky!"

The contempt was obvious to see. The oddest part though was that
my chips and cash were untouched.

**Three** · 05-20-2018, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash

The contempt was obvious to see. The oddest part though was that
my chips and cash were untouched.

They probably didn't understand the full scope of the AP play being used. Or maybe because you were his guest in the private club.

**chucky baby** · 05-20-2018, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by ummagumma

I think it may be good to let those who wish to believe a blackjack player's money can be confiscated on a whim to believe just that. More APs coming over here would only hasten the demise of a game which is struggling to maintain non-csm games....

On another note chucky baby, I've also been playing in the UK for the past 40 years. Perhaps we know each other

I don't think many on this forum have the interest or initiative to make the long trip to UK. I think most participants on this forum stick to US casinos.
And yes, we probably do know each other...send me an [email protected]