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Thread: Card Counting in Live Dealer Blackjack

  1. #1
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    Card Counting in Live Dealer Blackjack

    There used to be some software, which I never tested, called ABCCounter, but I think that it is no longer supported. It appended to Live Dealer sites, and showed the cards dealt to date in that shoe. I have been trawling the net looking for similar software, but cannot find any. One can, of course, enter the cards manually into a program such as CV, but it used to be relatively easy to import the feed from the live dealer sites to do that automatically. Now, however, the feeds are encrypted, and reverting to manual entry is undesirable. Some sites have as high as 60% penetration as well, so there is an advantage to be gained. In addition, 100% bonuses are available, so if one can even play at an average of -0.25% for long periods one will make money. Effectively if one wins, one wins, and if one loses one only loses half of one's outlay, so a positive EV.

    Does anyone know of any software that captures the cards dealt on live dealer games (suits and values both needed)? The main providers are Playtech, Micrograming and Evolution. The first two take the cards away from the table and machine shuffle them, so no shuffle-tracking is possible. The shuffle with Evolution is also highly convoluted with an occasional wash shuffle, so that does not appeal either, but the penetration is still enough to give a tiny edge with perfect play, given that one can join and leave whenever one wants, so one leaves if the count is worse than -1 for example. Ideally, one plays at several tables and the software keeps running counts.

    I think there would be a market for such software as well, if anyone is capable of building it if it does not exist. Live Dealer games are on the up, and are being added by hundreds of online bookmakers. If CV were to get the cards dealt automatically, it would be a hugely more beneficial product. Anyone with such skills, wanting to collaborate on such a project, should PM me.

  2. #2
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    The use of such a product is against online casino terms of service. This likely gives them the legal right to take your money if you lose and take your money if you win.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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    Senior Member bigplayer's Avatar
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    The online casino, as part of their software package, likely will install software on your computer which allows them to see everything running on it (including any VM and Proxy software). Then what Norm W. says.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigplayer View Post
    The online casino, as part of their software package, likely will install software on your computer which allows them to see everything running on it (including any VM and Proxy software). Then what Norm W. says.
    That would be a neat trick. It's possible, but I really doubt that they have software could spy on VMs...

    Even if so, you can always get a nice, large monitor for the the game computer, aim a high quality camera at it that's connected to a second computer, and do your image capture/analysis on that separate box. Any images that get displayed on a monitor will always be vulnerable to the analog loophole...
    Still, I would think that time would be better spent doing things other than coding something like this, but it is possible if someone were so inclined.

    Some of these live dealer online casinos shuffle in front of the camera. Now that is something that may be worth exploiting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin View Post
    Some of these live dealer online casinos shuffle in front of the camera. Now that is something that may be worth exploiting.
    Honestly we deal the same shoe you saw us shuffle. You can trust us. We want you to win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    The use of such a product is against online casino terms of service. This likely gives them the legal right to take your money if you lose and take your money if you win.
    Not against the conditions of the top three British bookmakers. For example, from one leading bookmaker:4.4. You shall not use the Website for any purpose which is or is likely to be considered to be defamatory, abusive, obscene, unlawful, of a racist, sexist or other discriminatory nature, or which could cause offence.4.5. You must not misuse the Website by knowingly introducing viruses, trojans, worms, logic bombs or other material which is malicious or technologically harmful. You must not attempt to gain unauthorised access to the Website.So, software that reads the cards out loud is a legal activity, and assistance in doing so (I have VERY poor eyesight) is permitted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigplayer View Post
    The online casino, as part of their software package, likely will install software on your computer which allows them to see everything running on it (including any VM and Proxy software). Then what Norm W. says.
    It is relatively easy to make this software invisible, and if that was my only problem I would be betting now!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tthree View Post
    Honestly we deal the same shoe you saw us shuffle. You can trust us. We want you to win.
    I have recorded some shoes manually, and, even with the complex shuffles that they do, I was able to establish that the two shoes were the same. They would risk their license if they did not use the shoe that the customer thinks is being used. I would not be so confident about the shoes that are taken away from the table and machine shuffled, but it would hardly matter with those. I tend to think, however, that the shuffle is too complex and now behind a table sign so not clearly visible, and correlation was very poor in my tests.

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    I wouldn't trust them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by foxymoron View Post
    Not against the conditions of the top three British bookmakers. For example, from one leading bookmaker:4.4. You shall not use the Website for any purpose which is or is likely to be considered to be defamatory, abusive, obscene, unlawful, of a racist, sexist or other discriminatory nature, or which could cause offence...
    ...as, for example, winning

    Dog Hand

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