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Thread: REKO +2 Strategy Inconsistencies

  1. #1


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    REKO +2 Strategy Inconsistencies

    I would like to preface my post by stating I originally contacted Norm directly about this issue. However, his short response said that I should post subjects like this in the forum. In regards to my query, he stated, “Counting systems are not basic strategy. A major point of counting systems is variation of play depending on the count. When the composition of the deck is different, the strategy employed is different. It is a different game.” As you will see below, this response does not answer my questions. Also, by no means what so ever am I trying to give Norm a hard time; I just want a reasonable explanation to the inconsistencies listed in Norm’s book Modern Blackjack regarding the REKO +2 counting system.

    From Norm’s book, Modern Blackjack:

    “With REKO, we normally play Basic Strategy, except when we have a count of +2 or greater. With a higher count, we play a different strategy.” http://www.qfit.com/book/ModernBlackjackPage72.htm

    Edit Note: Since this thread was started, Norm has changed the wording of the above quote.

    So, we play the Basic Strategy for all plays when the REKO count is below +2; clearly stated in Norm’s book.

    So why do the indexes for REKO +2 show indexes for Standing on 12v4 (2-6 decks) and Standing on 12v5, 12v6, 13v2, 13v3 (1 deck). http://www.qfit.com/book/ModernBlackjackPage73.htm

    Why bother listing those Stands when they do not deviate from any Basic Strategy table; in other words, the indexes are telling you to Stand for these plays, when you already Stand using any Basic Strategy.

    Did I miss some Basic Strategy tables that show something other than Standing on those plays? If so, please direct me to the Basic Strategy tables that show Hitting on 12v4, 12v5, 12v6, 13v2, 13v3.

    Actually there is a Basic Strategy table that shows 12v4 being Hit in Norm’s book: http://www.qfit.com/book/ModernBlackjackPage76.htm

    With that Basic Strategy table, Norm states, Simply create a Basic Strategy chart with a mark wherever one of the strategy variations occurs. I have created a set of charts like this, which you can modify and print.” http://www.qfit.com/book/ModernBlackjackPage74.htm

    However, Norm is contradicting himself because he clearly shows a Basic Strategy play for 12v4 (along with 12v5,12v6, 13v2, 13v3) is to Stand not Hit.
    http://www.qfit.com/book/ModernBlackjackPage56.htm and http://www.qfit.com/book/ModernBlackjackPage57.htm

    Inconsistencies like these drive me crazy and put a big cloud of doubt over my head to what or who to believe when it comes to Basic Strategy and any Card Counting strategy!!!

    I have been considering buying software from Norm, however, how can I trust the software to train me correctly; I do not want to lose big amounts of money at casinos because I have been fed wrong information; makes me question if casinos pay big bucks to throw in a wrong little bit of strategy here and there (published by experts and good Samaritans) to ultimately HOAX, SCAM, and STEAL from decent people like myself.

    Please help; I really have a strong drive and appetite to be a professional blackjack player (I have been doing tons of reading and practicing over the last 2 months), but don't want to be misled/fooled into incorrect play that lines the pockets of the already rich.
    Last edited by Fate; 02-22-2014 at 12:03 PM.

  2. #2


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    You are hitting < 2: standing =>2

    All basic strategy depends on #decks and rules.

    If you want to understand why we make these play variations you are going to have to put in a lot of additional time, especially if you don't have college level statistics and calculus experience. Buy peter griffin's theory of blackjack to understand the why, alternatively, you can look at some tables that show our EV for certain hand matchups and compare them to EV tables that show strategy variation.

  3. #3
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    REKO is NOT basic strategy. It is a compromise counting strategy designed for simplicity. Even non-compromise strategies appear to violate basic strategy, because basic strategy and counting strategies take into account the cards in the players hand and dealer upcard differently. A compromise strategy will include additional differences with basic strategy. But, the overall results will provide a positive expectation, as opposed to the negative expectation provided by basic strategy.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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    I never said REKO was Basic Strategy. I only said that in Modern Blackjack we are told to use Basic Strategy for anything under a +2 REKO count. Simple enough concept. So use Basic Strategy until our REKO count is +2 or more; how many different ways do I need to restate what is already stated in Modern Blackjack?

    And so, when we use the REKO +2 indexes at a REKO +2 count we have indexes that are redundant to Basic Strategy, so why bother listing them? As stated above.

    @muckz: You didn't answer my questions.

    @Norm: So when we use the REKO counting system, do we follow Basic Strategy tables before reaching a REKO count of +2? (That is what you said to do in your book)
    Last edited by Fate; 02-21-2014 at 12:49 PM.

  5. #5


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    Quote Originally Posted by Fate View Post
    I never said REKO was Basic Strategy. I only said that in Modern Blackjack we are told to use Basic Strategy for anything under a +2 REKO count. Simple enough concept. So use Basic Strategy until our REKO count is +2 or more; how many different ways do I need to restate what is already stated in Modern Blackjack?

    And so, when we use the REKO +2 indexes at a REKO +2 count we have indexes that are redundant to Basic Strategy, so why bother listing them? As stated above.

    @muckz: you didn't answer my question
    I don't know what your question is then.

  6. #6
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Basically, there are two basic strategies with REKO, with a count of +2 used to determine which to use.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  7. #7


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    Maybe I need to break this down a little more so people know what my questions are.

    Question 1: When using the REKO counting system, as described in the online book Modern Blackjack, do you use Common Basic Strategy (as stated for different casino table circumstances; i.e. number of decks, S17/H17, DAS, nDAS, LS, etc.) before reaching a REKO count of +2???

    Question 2: Pending answer of question 1

  8. #8


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    Yes, you use basic strategy for all plays EXCEPT when you are given an index number for a play. As I said before the correct way to play with the +2 index is to hit <2 and Double/stand/surrender =>2. http://www.qfit.com/book/ModernBlackjackPage73.htm it states exactly how to play on the page you linked.

  9. #9
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    You surrender, stand or hit when the count is +2 for the listed hands. You do not surrender, stand or hit when the count is below +2.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  10. #10


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    Question 2: According to muckz, we play Basic Strategy for REKO counts of under +2, EXCEPT for plays as shown in the REKO +2 indexes where we would deviate from the common Basic Strategy play. Are we all in agreement with that statement?

    Question 3: So if that is the case, ...

  11. #11
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    You surrender, stand or hit when the count is +2 for the listed hands. You do not surrender, stand or hit when the count is below +2.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  12. #12


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    Still waiting for answer to Question 2

  13. #13
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    I'll review the wording to see if it can be less confusing. But:

    You surrender, stand or hit when the count is +2 for the listed hands. You do not surrender, stand or hit when the count is below +2.

    Is that clear?
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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