States of surveillance

[Slacker13]

Does anyone have any idea of how casinos maintain their systems?

I would think newer casinos have top notch equipment, but what about older joints? Is there a constant push to upgrade their technology or do they just deal with what they have? Seems like a costly venture once the systems are in place. I would also think that establishments that are making good money can keep up on their tech, but ones who are struggling may put this on the back burner. With competition between casinos heating up and profit margins decreasing, is some surveillance possibly falling by the wayside?

[ZenKinG]

You' be surprised how many casinos aren't that "up to date." And the ones that are, the tech is troublesome and not as accurate as advertised.

[bigplayer]

There are still some casinos with antiquated cameras (the bigger the bubble in the ceiling the crappier the camera) and VHS decks recording it all forcing operatives to be spending a lot of time doing tape changes. That said, the newest casinos have all the bells and whistles and the older ones who make a lot of money are upgrading their stuff. The new cameras are very good and some are even high def. They can read your text messages with ease. Needless to say there are many casinos built in the 1990's and earlier that do not have much money budgeted towards upgrading their surveillance departments. You could probably safely assume any casino built in the last ten years has many of the latest gizmo's. In the end though it's the quality of the staff and procedures that fortifies the casino, not it's gizmo's.

[biggg]

Some of the stuff I have heard from the newer casinos is just incredible. Assume they keep the tapes of everything that is the least bit suspicious and can see and know everything you do.

[bigplayer]

Assume they keep the tapes of everything

New casinos store everything on DVR and racks of high capacity hard drives. They can keep far more video history than the older VHS tapes and worse for players call up specific camera shots and days with the push of a button.

[Marlene]

Then they could piece together play of a rated player months apart. Your short sessions might not be so short. Does anyone know if a casino has gone to these lengths to review someone?

[Three]

There are still some casinos with antiquated cameras (the bigger the bubble in the ceiling the crappier the camera) and VHS decks recording it all forcing operatives to be spending a lot of time doing tape changes. That said, the newest casinos have all the bells and whistles and the older ones who make a lot of money are upgrading their stuff. The new cameras are very good and some are even high def. They can read your text messages with ease. Needless to say there are many casinos built in the 1990's and earlier that do not have much money budgeted towards upgrading their surveillance departments. You could probably safely assume any casino built in the last ten years has many of the latest gizmo's. In the end though it's the quality of the staff and procedures that fortifies the casino, not it's gizmo's.

New casinos store everything on DVR and racks of high capacity hard drives. They can keep far more video history than the older VHS tapes and worse for players call up specific camera shots and days with the push of a button.

As usual great posts by BP. I have a question about chains with casinos of mixed age. If they open a shiny brand new casino are you better off avoiding playing there much or at all if you are killing a string of their older casinos owned by that casino empire that have significantly higher expenses in both travel cost and time compared to the shiny new one that likely has all the bells and whistles?

[21forme]

If they open a shiny brand new casino are you better off avoiding playing there much or at all if you are killing a string of their older casinos owned by that casino empire that have significantly higher expenses in both travel cost and time compared to the shiny new one that likely has all the bells and whistles?

Do you think you, as an individual, has any significant impact on their bottom line?
On a hypothetical note, with the current debt load of a certain casino empire. perhpas they'll sell off some casinos to raise cash and better games will result with the new owner.

[Three]

Do you think you, as an individual, has any significant impact on their bottom line?

No. I know I have been flying under the radar for many years at these properties perhaps due to their surveillance or perhaps due to my skill at doing so. I was worried that I may lose access to the chain by getting backed off at a new store if it is simply the surveillance that has allowed me to do so. I think it is skill because I have played some shiny new sweat shops that were purported to have the best counter catchers by other players with similar spreads etc that had been backed off and have the suits repeatedly approaching me with the red carpet treatment rather than the tap. I even thought I was about to get backed off one time and went in and threw caution to the wind and went for a big final hit. It didn't go according to plan and after 6 hours I was down 20 max bets and the suits approached. Rather than the tap they offered me a credit line and a reserved table. So much for catching heat at the sweat shop. My count had me making moves the great counter catcher couldn't understand. Add in a small amount of cheap cover both betting and playing and they saw a golden goose not a threat. I have continued to crush this place infrequently with the expected negative swings tossed in like I had that day. Although their game isn't as good today. Anyway I am not sure if it is worth risking the casinos 2 or 3 hours away to play one that is nearby. If I can do the same at the new casino I will pocket all that travel expense for each visit. If I get backed off I lose a half dozen stores I regularly crush from my rotation. The mailers I get usually more than cover the travel costs and all my stay and meals are free so really just the time invested in travel will be saved.

[KJ]

In the end though it's the quality of the staff and procedures that fortifies the casino, not it's gizmo's.

The importance of this BP quote should not be overlooked. In the last 5 or 6 year in particular, since the economy really turned south, taking casino revenues with it, we have witnessed casino 'cuts' all across the board. We see it in the pit, where a 'critter' that once was responsible for 4 tables is now responsible for 6-8. I have been told be folks in the industry that those cut didn't stop at the surveillance room door. Surveillance guys who were already spread thin and usually underpaid, where asked to take on more, to monitor a larger bank of surveillance monitors. So, top notch equipment or "gizmo's" as BP puts it, are only as good as the human eyes behind it.

I suppose it is like everything else, the higher end properties that pay a little more are attracting the better surveillance guys. But even the top guys are spread thinner than they used to be.

[biggg]

Let me put it this way I have heard stories of people playing unrated sessions, getting heat but no BO then coming back a year later with a players card and getting a BO because they pieced together the two faces from their footage.

[bigplayer]

I have a question about chains with casinos of mixed age. If they open a shiny brand new casino are you better off avoiding playing there much or at all if you are killing a string of their older casinos owned by that casino empire that have significantly higher expenses in both travel cost and time compared to the shiny new one that likely has all the bells and whistles?

I'm not going to mention what casino is what, but as an example, on the LV Strip there are two companies that each own a half dozen casinos of various ages. You can safely assume their newer casinos have the newest equipment and all things being equal the newer places will be able to more quickly identify bad guys.

Let me put it this way I have heard stories of people playing unrated sessions, getting heat but no BO then coming back a year later with a players card and getting a BO because they pieced together the two faces from their footage.

If you got nailed a year later very quickly it's because someone remembered your face. They could accomplish the same thing with a scrapbook of mugshots if you give them enough time to do it. FRS is highly overrated...why...because casinos can accomplish the same thing with a simple photo database indexed multiple ways via keywords. In the end it comes down to the people, not the equipment.

[AussiePlayer]

perhpas they'll sell off some casinos to raise cash and better games will result with the new owner.

Not sure that they'd get much after running these joints into the ground and bleeding them dry.