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I tip for political reasons in the joints I hang out in. The more personable dealers get more, and the jerks, jerkesses, get less. Deck pen is a consideration - I consider it as a normal business expense with neglible impact go EV. The scenario you described, I would have been tempted to ask to see the toke pile , take it back saying they didn't deserve it. . Clearly, you can't do that, but you can make it clear to other dealers that you no longer tip to dealers who are rude - after all - after all us said and fine - it is still an entertainment business - and you don't tip dealers who piss you off.
Now, for that last comment of yours - that was not wise - he may well have known what you were up to, but there was no need to reinforce his opinion. What you could have said, still leaving room for doubt - my buddies always tell me that they are more generous tippers when they play out more of the deck (shoe)
One last thought - there are many counters who simply don't tip as it impacts EV - that small dollar tipping is not appreciated by dealers, so why tip. There is certainly merit to the argument - there is also merit to prudent toking to increase longevity etc.
at an average bet of 115 at 100 hph averaging 1% after toking (in a store you want to stick around in) you will average 4.5 bj's per hour. Throw the dealer a .50 piece and put $1.00 in the betting circle. Small, but constant - and appreciated.
If a dealer is rude / doesn't appreciate a tip, well then he's just an idiot. If you were rude to begin with...that's a different story.
Even if you gave him a nice tip, he would see a tiny percentage of it.
You have it all wrong! You go to the cashier and ask them to change $1 into 4 quarters. You go back to the table and apologize to the dealer for being a "rude tipper" {or whatever you are}, then you ask him, "Can I tip you now even if I'm not playing anymore?" and hopefully he should say "Yes" or something of that sort, in which case you give him 3 quarters, saying, "Don't spend it all in one place there, sonny boy" in an old-man's voice. Best case scenario, they don't have quarters on the table (instead, they have either $2.50 chips or $0.50 pieces), and will be forced to drop it in the toke box.Originally Posted by Jentho
In all seriousness...it's probably best to just walk away. If they do make a comment or are rude about the tips you give them, either stop tipping them (duh!), or say something like, "I just lost $xxx [earlier today / last night / this weekend / whatever], sorry I can't tip you much."
"Everyone wants to be rich, but nobody wants to work for it." -Ryan Howard [The Office]
When dealer's try tip hustling with me I just tell them what will get tips and what won't with me. I make it clear that openly ungrateful dealers get no tips and that I don't get to play much so if too much of my time is spent watching a dealer shuffle I don't tip much if I tip at all. I let them know that I understand they must try to stimulate tips and that my advice is an attempt to help them do just that. If they think it is worth making me into a stiff to get some out of others that is their decision and they should understand the costs and benefits of all their behavior given the people currently at the table. Most of them get it. Some try to generate tips from me. That can be the beginning of a comfortable situation and I never let anything out of the bag and could only be viewed as a helpful and cooperative patron.
If you are tipping away 10% of every win and still absorbing 100% of every loss, especially with short sessions, you are probably playing a losing game. The edge from card counting is tiny and our gross session wins are far, far higher than our net wins. 10% of each win may exceed your entire net win over the long term.
Tipping is a direct drain on your EV. You generally should not do it, especially if your EV is less than $150 an hour. You simply can never tip enough to make a greedy dealer happy and the rest of the dealers aren't influenced by the amount of tipping appropriate for lower stakes players. Remember a $10 tip has a CE of $10, $100 in EV has a CE of only $50 if you're sizing your bets properly. At higher stakes your EV is high enough to make occasional very modest tips part of your overall strategy if called for.
Suggestions
1. Never tip when losing...that should immediately cut the need to tip in half
2. Tip only small amounts...that means white $1 chips and only rarely $5 chips.
3. Remember tips are a direct 100% charge against your EV. Track your tipping, you'll find at the end of the year even modest tips add up to considerable amounts.
4. Remember when you tip you are making a purchase. Know what you are buying and whether it's for sale. Are you buying penetration? Dealer Silence? Table Image for the Pit/Eye?
5. If you don't know what your tips are buying or aren't sure that what you want to buy is actually for sale then you should not tip. You're just wasting your money.
Last edited by bigplayer; 02-11-2014 at 09:26 AM.
A quick chart that looks at the cost of tipping: Modern Blackjack Page 155.
"I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse
Thank you bigplayer for an outstanding post. This post should be the definative word on the subject, for most players. I particularly like #4. I really think many players are indeed attempting to purchase something that is not even for sale and end up just throwing their money away.
Last edited by KJ; 02-11-2014 at 10:50 AM.
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