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Thread: Anyone know how to work out house edge when house pays straight away on 21 and 5 card

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    Anyone know how to work out house edge when house pays straight away on 21 and 5 card

    Anyone know how to work out house edge when house pays straight away on 21 and 5 card.
    Other relevant info:

    • ll rules are based on conventional blackjack unless otherwise noted.
    • Six decks are used.
    • Dealer hits a soft 17.
    • Cards will be dealt face up.
    • Player may double on any 2 cards.
    • Player may double after a split.
    • Player may resplit up to four hands.
    • Blackjacks pays 3 to 2.

  2. #2


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    You would have to alter your strategy to take advantage of the rules. Napkin estimate is 1.2% player edge.

  3. #3


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    Quote Originally Posted by biggg View Post
    You would have to alter your strategy to take advantage of the rules. Napkin estimate is 1.2% player edge.
    Sorry to sound like a bit of a noob but what is Napkin? source?

  4. #4
    Senior Member Bodarc's Avatar
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    Five card Charlie +1.46%
    Player 21-points is automatic winner +0.54%
    Basic game H17, no RSA, no Surrender -.6608
    Total

    http://wizardofodds.com/games/blackj...le-variations/

  5. #5
    Senior Member Bodarc's Avatar
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    Total 1.3392

    Dang your basic napkin estimates are good biggg!!

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    Does the OP really mean 5 card Charlie and any player 21 is an automatic winner, or is it really just a 5 card 21 is an automatic winner?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyne View Post
    Does the OP really mean 5 card Charlie and any player 21 is an automatic winner, or is it really just a 5 card 21 is an automatic winner?
    I was thinking the same thing.
    Thats surely the case.

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    Rounding this off, the chances of a BJ appearing is about 1 per 22 hands,

    so squaring that approximates the frequency of this bonus ~ and that is

    over 2%. Playing 100 hands per hour you are looking at a frequency of

    seeing your BJ facing a dealer's BJ twice. Converting a push to a 150%

    premium win (3:2 payoff) is a bonus of three (3) units per 100 hands.

    The rules given by the O.P. yields a House Edge of 0.41%

    With 100 hands losing 0.41 units [to the Basic Strategist], and

    this bonus of 3 units would massively aid the player, creating

    a House Edge of approximately
    -2.50%.

    That is not possible; so where am I making my error ?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash View Post
    Rounding this off, the chances of a BJ appearing is about 1 per 22 hands,


    It's 0.0475, or close to 1/21, not 1/22...

    so squaring that approximates the frequency of this bonus ~ and that is

    over 2%.
    First, you seem to be trying to calculate the value of a player BJ paying 3:2 immediately, even if the dealer has a BJ also. I don't think that's the rule under discussion, but we are waiting for clarification from the OP. Second, 0.0475^2 is 0.002255, so you are off by an order of magnitude.

    Playing 100 hands per hour you are looking at a frequency of

    seeing your BJ facing a dealer's BJ twice.
    More like 0.22 times per hundred hands.

    Converting a push to a 150%

    premium win (3:2 payoff) is a bonus of three (3) units per 100 hands.
    0.34 units per hundred hands

    The rules given by the O.P. yields a House Edge of 0.41%

    With 100 hands losing 0.41 units [to the Basic Strategist], and

    this bonus of 3 units would massively aid the player, creating

    a House Edge of approximately
    -2.50%.

    That is not possible; so where am I making my error ?
    So if the rule is that the player gets paid for a BJ even if the dealer also has a BJ, we are talking about a house edge under 0.1%, but not an off the top player edge. But that doesn't address the 5 card comment. I strongly suspect this is a 5 card 21 = automatic winner rule, which helps the player very slightly better. It's not much. On the order of a tenth of a percent or so, but I don't have the books available to look it up at the moment.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Jabberwocky's Avatar
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    It should be the conventional 5 cards unbusted hand is automatic winner.
    Vincit Qui Patitur

  11. #11


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    Even if you don't count , you need to play correct basic strategy for 5 card rule. You alter your strategy for hands holding 3 and 4 cards. If you need the basic strategy shoot me an email to [email protected]

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