See the top rated post in this thread. Click here

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 13 of 24

Thread: Noob question about B.S.

  1. #1


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

    Noob question about B.S.

    Ok I think I already know the answer to this but I figured I would give it a shot. Assuming you are playing strict basic strategy on a 6D, dealer stands on all 17, Resplit, Double after split etc game; how would you play this:

    Your hand: 8, 8.
    Dealer: ?, K.

    Now according to BS you're supposed to split the 8's (which is what I did), then I had an 8,10 and an 8,3. Then according to strategy, I doubled on my 8,3 hand and drew something like a 4 giving me a hand of 15 and a hand of 18.

    Naturally the dealer drew another 10, giving him a hand of 20 and taking my 3 unit hand.

    Now here's my question. If a dealer is showing a 10 is it really that wise to split the 8's. And if you do split the 8's is it worth it to double if you get a hand with 10 or 11.

    Thanks.

    now I've only been playing blackjack for 3 months, and I know the answer is to do whatever basic strategy tells, but it feels like I would have been better off surrendering the hand of 16 v 10, rather then dumping another 2 units into it, but if there is any other insight on this it would be appreciated.
    Last edited by bcelos; 01-24-2014 at 07:33 AM.

  2. #2


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    You're falling victim to analyzing things in hindsight. This particular time you lost all 3 bets, but you would not be feeling this way if you had caught a face on your double for an overall win. Unless you're counting and know the deviations for the count or have some other form of information, then never guess -- always follow the basic strategy.

    It may make you feel better to know that splitting 8,8 vs K does not make it into a winning hand. It just makes it into less of a losing hand. This is called a defensive split.

  3. #3


    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    If you can surrender your 8/8 vs 10 then you surrender ( b.s.), if not then you split.

  4. #4


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    NO! That's wrong. 8,8, v. T is NOT surrender BS. BS is to split. Period.

    Don

  5. #5


    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    When you split 8,8 v. T in the game whose rules you described, your e.v. is -47.5%. If you stand, you lose 53.7%. If you hit, you lose 53.5%. Naturally, if you surrender, you lose 50%.

    Your choice!

    Don

  6. #6


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Ok thank you everyone for the reconfirmation. Sounds like I need to stop overthinking.

  7. #7
    Senior Member steveistheman84's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    nevada
    Posts
    271


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    if no surrender, stand it at around +6. there's an index for surrender too, but i don't know it (probably lower than +6 though). maybe around +4?
    big dog in charge

  8. #8
    Senior Member steveistheman84's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    nevada
    Posts
    271


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    sorry, i don't know if you count or not. ALWAYS split 88 and AA against everything.
    big dog in charge

  9. #9


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by bcelos View Post
    Ok thank you everyone for the reconfirmation. Sounds like I need to stop overthinking.
    I highly recommend for you to obtain a copy of Don's BJA3 he reveals all the Basic Strategy expected values that can help you better understand why you make certain decisions.

    MavSharp
    "The dumbest blackjack player is twice as smart as any keno player" -Peter Griffin

  10. #10


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by bcelos View Post
    Ok I think I already know the answer to this but I figured I would give it a shot. Assuming you are playing strict basic strategy on a 6D, dealer stands on all 17, Resplit, Double after split etc game; how would you play this:

    Your hand: 8, 8.
    Dealer: ?, K.

    Now according to BS you're supposed to split the 8's (which is what I did), then I had an 8,10 and an 8,3. Then according to strategy, I doubled on my 8,3 hand and drew something like a 4 giving me a hand of 15 and a hand of 18.

    Naturally the dealer drew another 10, giving him a hand of 20 and taking my 3 unit hand.

    Now here's my question. If a dealer is showing a 10 is it really that wise to split the 8's. And if you do split the 8's is it worth it to double if you get a hand with 10 or 11.

    Thanks.

    now I've only been playing blackjack for 3 months, and I know the answer is to do whatever basic strategy tells, but it feels like I would have been better off surrendering the hand of 16 v 10, rather then dumping another 2 units into it, but if there is any other insight on this it would be appreciated.
    When you split pair 8s it breaks up your hard total of 16. With a pairs 8s against a dealer's 10 you will lose about $53 for every $100 bet by hitting. The logic in basic strategy for this play is to loss less. From computer analysis it shows that you will lose about $48 for every $100 bet when you split 8s. The sad part is splitting still results in loses from the players point of view. Lets do some math here:

    As mention above if you hit 8,8 vs 10 you will lose $53 and for splitting you will lose $47. You subtract $53-$47= $6.

    In other words by splitting you just save yourself $9 for every $100 bet. The logic of basic strategy shows that it is better to play two hands starting with 8 than one hand of 16 when the dealers up card is a 10. Remember that sometimes when you split 8,8 vs 10 you will lost both 8s against the dealer's 10. After you are dealt many many pairs of 8s it will result in losing less than standing and hitting. Keep in mind that you will lose a lot of pairs 8s dealt to you when splitting but you will lose more when you hit or stand.

    Hope that helps.
    Last edited by seriousplayer; 01-24-2014 at 07:49 PM.

  11. #11


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    thank you that post is extremely helpful.

  12. #12


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Splitting 8,8 vs. dealer's 10 is referred to as a "defensive" split. You are in a lose-lose sitiation regardless what you do because any play you make yields a negative expectation. Splitting in this scenario happens to have the lowest negative expectation. In blackjack its all about EV!!!!!!!

    MavSharp
    "The dumbest blackjack player is twice as smart as any keno player" -Peter Griffin

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    3rd rock from Sol, Milky Way Galaxy
    Posts
    14,158


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    The EV maximizing play is to split. My count, HIOPT II, has practically no correlation to the play. For that reason I surrender to reduce variance even though I know I am giving up EV. The important "high cards" (good for the player if they are left in the deck) are 5, 4 and 9 in that order with the T being a very minor "high card". The important low cards are 7, 6, 3, 2 and A with the 8 being a minor low card. As you can see the count which counts the most important "high cards" as the strongest low cards (+2) and the strongest low cards as the weakest low cards (+1), the count is useless for any index play. I am happy to give up a little EV for 0 variance while conserving cards for stronger plays. Of course if my bet is trivial....

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Apologies: noob question
    By Preferrd in forum General Blackjack Forum
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 06-01-2013, 05:49 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

About Blackjack: The Forum

BJTF is an advantage player site based on the principles of comity. That is, civil and considerate behavior for the mutual benefit of all involved. The goal of advantage play is the legal extraction of funds from gaming establishments by gaining a mathematic advantage and developing the skills required to use that advantage. To maximize our success, it is important to understand that we are all on the same side. Personal conflicts simply get in the way of our goals.