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Thread: Beyond Counting James Grosjean

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    Beyond Counting James Grosjean

    Does anyone have a copy of this that would be willing to let me rent it from them? I just don't have 1.5k to pony up and don't want to throw it on credit. I would be willing to pay a decent rent charge?

  2. #2


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    I guess i may just have to wait for a real opportunity to purchase this book. I find it so interesting reading about legends like Mr. Grosjean and other legends, some even on this forum.

    In the beginning I just had an interest on wanting to win money, that soon developed into hating casinos, and totally evolving to learning every aspect of it from the legends to AP play and the history that comes with it all, from court cases, to successful teams, it truly all is intriguing and hope to actually meet some and even play with some one day.

  3. #3


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dtb239 View Post
    Does anyone have a copy of this that would be willing to let me rent it from them? I just don't have 1.5k to pony up and don't want to throw it on credit. I would be willing to pay a decent rent charge?
    I own two copies of James Grojean's Beyond Counting I am willing to part with one if the price is right...

    MavSharp
    "The dumbest blackjack player is twice as smart as any keno player" -Peter Griffin

  4. #4


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    Please forgive my ignorance, but is there a separate version of this book other than the $200 book that can be found on Amazon? Does the 1.5 K version have extra content or is it some limited edition or updated version?

  5. #5


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    Quote Originally Posted by houyi View Post
    Please forgive my ignorance, but is there a separate version of this book other than the $200 book that can be found on Amazon? Does the 1.5 K version have extra content or is it some limited edition or updated version?
    You want the first edition of Beyond Counting 223 pages published in 2000.

    MavSharp
    Last edited by MavSharp; 01-24-2014 at 01:18 AM.
    "The dumbest blackjack player is twice as smart as any keno player" -Peter Griffin

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    Quote Originally Posted by houyi View Post
    the $200 book that can be found on Amazon?
    If you actually take the time to look at the $200 listing, you will find that it's not actually the book, it's just a lame peddler selling his "notes" on the book. Notes which he tried to astroturf here, was discovered, the notes themselves were criticized as nothing new, and the guy's still trying to sell them off on ebay and amazon by using listings that match searches for the book itself.

    There is no copy currently for sale at $200 (I doubt there will ever be), but the note seller has the book for sale at $2000 if you want it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MavSharp View Post
    You want the first edition of Beyond Counting 223 pages published in 2000.

    MavSharp
    I'll bite. What makes the first book better than the second? (I haven't read the first.)

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    Senior Member DBJT's Avatar
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    Actually IMHO the second one (Exhibit CAA) is "better" than the first edition, but much more expensive.

    The FIRST one has about 80% of what's in the second and current prices on it are, I believe, in the $600-$800 range (but I could be wrong, check recent eBay auctions to be sure).

    In other words, it seems to me that IF you're advanced enough to get anything outta the book, you'll be able to glean enough +EV from just the info in first edition, so that if you eventually want to read ExCAA too, and get that add'tl 20% more advanced info from it, then the first edition's value will have likely earned you enough to pay for the second edition outright.

    On the other hand, if you're not advanced enough yet to really benefit from any of this info, reading the 2nd edition won't help you any more than reading the less-expensive 1st edition would've (not) helped you. So you might as well save the extra cost for ExCAA up front...

    -DBJT

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    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    The second book is vastly larger and more detailed than the first.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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    There were rumors floating around that some stuff from the first edition wasn't included in the second. If I recall, JG himself denied this, and one example (big six) was definitely in the second edition, so I think those rumors were false.

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