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Thread: Glitzensplizzle on my glockenspiel

  1. #287
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    There are lots of tricks to counting aces but most players don't deal with keeping it with anything more than a number line count. I am interested to hear what Tarzan says works for him while keeping track of a 3 column count rather than just a running count.

  2. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tthree View Post
    There are lots of tricks to counting aces but most players don't deal with keeping it with anything more than a number line count. I am interested to hear what Tarzan says works for him while keeping track of a 3 column count rather than just a running count.
    On the Ace side count for 2 decks, I go 1-2-3-4-4r-3r-2r-1r. At some point when four or less remain I think of them as X amount left rather than X amount played. On a 6 deck shoe I go 1-12 and then 12r-1r to cover the 24 Aces. Count it up and then count it down. I note this throughout any text I make on this as an “r” after the number to indicate number remaining rather than number played (which is also what I think of it as), such as:
    4-0-6-1 @2----- One Ace has been removed from the deck.
    6-0-5-3r @1----- Three Aces remaining in the deck.
    14-0-12-11 @3----- Eleven Aces have been removed from the deck.
    14-0-12-10r @3----- Ten Aces remaining in the deck.

    I think of the (A) side count as something completely separate from the primary three groupings. These three primary groupings are sort of like a hamster wheel that runs continuously generating this set of three numbers. I think of Aces as something off to the side and very separate from this "hamster wheel" in my mind generating this steadily updated stream of three numbers. The reasoning for this visualization is that the Aces are not part of the reduction to lowest terms that occurs within the three groupings.

    To answer Moses inquiry, when playing a 2D game the count seldom exceeds double digits (as in 10-0-10, 10-6-0, etc.) but in a 6D game the count can be things like 24-0-22-12r @3, 17-8-0-5r @3, 0-18-4-7r @2, etc. With the 6D game you are dealing with larger numbers and the count has the opportunity to go off the charts, down in the dumps or have an unusual situations within the deck composition such as a huge surplus or deficit of {6-9}, especially if it’s dealt deep. A 6D game dealt down to one deck can have a much crazier deck composition than a 2D game dealt down to one deck. With regard to Aces it's within 1/4 deck. If there are 2 1/2 decks in the discard rack and twelve (A) have been played then obviously you have two deficit Aces. If there are 3 1/4 decks in the discard rack and nine (A) have been played you have four surplus Aces. This is factored in to form my TC as previously described.
    Last edited by Tarzan; 09-19-2014 at 10:27 AM.

  3. #289
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    As I thought Tarzan had his own method of side counting aces.

  4. #290
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    I have enjoyed the challenge of trying to count Tarzan count. So it seems that I have learned a bit, but being able to apply it and get an advantage is still unknown to me. The navigational technique that you are referring to is known as Resection, where the boat is at an unknown point and multiple known points can be located such as on a map. Technically if one known point can be determined on the shore, the boats unknown location can be determined with accurate range estimation, give me the binoculars. Depending if the declination for the given area is westerly or easterly will determine if grid to magnetic, or magnetic to grid conversion will be needed to further determine the exact position once a measured angle or angles (azimuth) are known. But yes, 3 known points in which to determine the boats unknown location could be just as accurate or better. With currents and wind conditions the boat will not stay on a straight line and will deviate off azimuth but ever so slightly before reaching the expected destination.

    I have a question for you. Using a Tarzan like counting approach/method on top of Hi-Lo. Since I know for a fact that all of the cards groupings can be accounted for using Hi-Lo with 100% accuracy if a Hi-Lo player wanted to utilize your information and technique could they do a long count in the fashion that you do, the card counter counts up the deck using Hi-Lo count where the 6 is counted as +1 and given a pseudo count so that the player can maintain a count on the 6-9 grouping? So the 6 (+1 for hi-lo and accounted for 6-9 grouping) and Ace is counted twice (-1 for hi-lo and side counted). The Hi-Lo player can still utilize the index plays for Hi-Lo while applying a Tarzan like approach. By counting the 6 twice (+1 and accounted for in 6-9 grouping) the middle column will still total to 16 in a SD if every card was spent. Here's the kicker for the Hi-Lo player to get to Tarzan count... the deduction of 4 (or what amount of 6's and A's are seen before the cut card) from the 2-6 grouping and the 10-A grouping since the 6 and Ace are counted with Hi-Lo. The deduction of 4 (or what is seen before the cut card) will put the Hi-Lo count on the Tarzan count with an accurate count on the middle grouping and with the availability of Hi-Lo's index, while Tarzan applications can be simultaneously employed. The obverse of that would be counting Tarzan count and adding back in the "seen" 6's and Aces (before the cut card) to the 2-5 and 10-K groupings to go to Hi-Lo with a long count total. Does this sound about right?
    Last edited by Blitzkrieg; 09-19-2014 at 09:15 PM.

  5. #291
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    Thanks for all the info that you have shared about your system. In a way it seems like I'm jumping ahead of myself and trying to change things up and around. I know that upsets people, I know I would be. Anyways I've devised a plan that I think can strengthen my game. I'm going to keep what I'm doing the same and will work on tracking the 7,8's, & 9's instead. By practicing I'm starting to see how this addition can be beneficial to my game, where at times I'm almost able to predict with accuracy and expecting cards from that grouping to show or smaller cards depending if I'm working in a negative count and with relation to how many cards I've seen from that 3 card grouping with regard to deck penetration. Penetration will be the indicator that I use to gauge/measure the 7,8, & 9 grouping with regard to how many decks are in play. I have already thought of a few techniques on how I'm going to make it work in the casino where it will be real easy for me to be armed with this extra info to put a thumping on the casino.
    Last edited by Blitzkrieg; 09-21-2014 at 06:07 AM.

  6. #292


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    I practiced a count like this myself and could get it down well enough to practice at home on CVBJ, so I can definitely see that it's possible, and the PE increases were noticable, when I was playing single deck there were a good number of hands where my playing decision varied based on this.

    What I have always wanted to know is how much you can really gain with this approach, basically from actual sims with SCOREs and winrates etc. My guess is that for shoe games it would be pretty rare to have these comp dependent situations come up and you would gain relatively little, but I could be wrong.

  7. #293
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    Even when the info doesn't change your play knowing your decision has much smaller error rate has great value. Increases in PE have value that allows you to bet more at the same RoR or bet the same at a lower RoR. Look to SCORE improvement to quantify the value. That keeps BR and RoR constant while calculating the optimal ramp for each in the comparison. The entire gain is in SCORE rather than spread across EV and RoR.Of course N0 is inversely proportional to SCORE but if RoR and BR aren't held constant to generate the 2 optimal spreads in the comparison N0 will not tell the entire story. Increase in PE from .51 to .67 has about a 15 to 20% increase in SCORE. Going to a PE in the .9's will give significantly more.

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