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Thread: Living off of your winnings

  1. #1


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    Living off of your winnings

    Hello all (and Happy Thanksgiving BTW!)

    I'm relatively new to the game. I'm mastered BS, but still practicing my card counting skills until I can do it in my sleep. I've also read about 5-6 books on the subject by the masters (Wong, Snyder, etc.) Before I got the bug, I have only played occasionally just for fun. Maybe drop a couple hundred bucks a few times a year at the local casino.

    Anyways, something I have yet to come across that Im hoping you guys can answer, or at least point me in the right direction. How exactly does one "make a living" playing blackjack? What I mean by that is, at what point and at what amount/percentage do you start using your winnings to "pay the bills" so to speak.

    I'm looking for both a mathimatical, maybe industry standard approach, as well as some stories from people that have actually done it.

    The reason I am asking is this: I plan on retiring, or at least semi-retiring in the next 4-6 years. I will have more time to go to the casino as well as an actual bankroll to play with. I would like to be able.to supplement my income by about $500/wk playing blackjack.

    These are my initial thoughts:

    1) Starting bankroll of $10,000

    2) $10,000 ÷ 400 units = $25 minimum bet

    3) $25 min. bet x 1.68 unit per hour win rate =$42/hr.

    4) $500 goal ÷ $42/hr win rate = 11.90 hours one must play to achieve this result.

    I know this is all hypothetical but it sounds reasonable to me. Please let me know where I'm right/wrong, if I'm on the track, how my math should be different, and other things I should consider. Please dont flame me, I'm new and this is why I am asking. We all have to start somewhere.

    Thanks in advance for everyones input

  2. #2


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    Quote Originally Posted by SauceBoss View Post
    Hello all (and Happy Thanksgiving BTW!)

    I'm relatively new to the game. I'm mastered BS, but still practicing my card counting skills until I can do it in my sleep. I've also read about 5-6 books on the subject by the masters (Wong, Snyder, etc.) Before I got the bug, I have only played occasionally just for fun. Maybe drop a couple hundred bucks a few times a year at the local casino.
    Anyways, something I have yet to come across that Im hoping you guys can answer, or at least point me in the right direction. How exactly does one "make a living" playing blackjack? What I mean by that is, at what point and at what amount/percentage do you start using your winnings to "pay the bills" so to speak.

    I'm looking for both a mathimatical, maybe industry standard approach, as well as some stories from people that have actually done it.

    The reason I am asking is this: I plan on retiring, or at least semi-retiring in the next 4-6 years. I will have more time to go to the casino as well as an actual bankroll to play with. I would like to be able.to supplement my income by about $500/wk playing blackjack.

    These are my initial thoughts:

    1) Starting bankroll of $10,000

    2) $10,000 ÷ 400 units = $25 minimum bet

    3) $25 min. bet x 1.68 unit per hour win rate =$42/hr.

    4) $500 goal ÷ $42/hr win rate = 11.90 hours one must play to achieve this result.

    I know this is all hypothetical but it sounds reasonable to me. Please let me know where I'm right/wrong, if I'm on the track, how my math should be different, and other things I should consider. Please dont flame me, I'm new and this is why I am asking. We all have to start somewhere.

    Thanks in advance for everyones input
    Recipe for disaster - will sim later

  3. #3
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    You need a big BR to live off your winnings. I am sure others will elaborate but the large and sustained downswings will destroy your BR without the support of all of the winnings if your BR is not extremely large.

  4. #4
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    Best way to play blackjack full time, would be to have a job on the side. Job can sustain the variance and allow you to play bigger stakes. Of course if you're wealthy you wont need a job if you have about 100-300k saved up. There's also another reason for having a job and playing blackjack on the side, but I wont go into it as it is illegal LOL

  5. #5


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    I understand you need a large bankroll to live off of your winnings. What I'm trying to figure out is exactly how large that bankroll must be. I'm sure it has to be a correlation to how much you need to live. So what's the formula?

    Obviously someone who wants to make $100,000/yr playing blackjack is going to need a larger bankroll than someone that is looking to make about $24,000/yr. or even someone that just says, I want to make an extra $1,000/mo spending money. But I'm guessing the formula would be the same.
    Last edited by SauceBoss; 11-28-2013 at 12:24 PM.

  6. #6


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    A ballpark figure that comes up often is a bankroll of 100 max bets. Mine is much more. This is not written in stone but is merely a starting point. It can be customized for you by a sim program using all your specific information.
    Last edited by paymypush; 11-28-2013 at 12:40 PM.

  7. #7
    Senior Member bigplayer's Avatar
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    Risk of ruin figures assume 100% reinvestment of winnings. If you live off all of your winnings you are 100% guaranteed to bust out. If you play to a very very low risk of ruin you can live off a good portion of your winnings assuming you are willing to replace your losses before you take any profits.

  8. #8


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    Look around in these forums and others. You'll see it depends on where you live, how much travel you need to do, your playing style, other non counting AP opportunities, etc.You'll find at least one person in Vegas who plays full time (isn't retired) on a BR of $100k+. You have to consider the variance, not just the EV, and your ability to stay under the radar, or at least stay within tolerance levels of the stores you play. Just saying there's more to it then the math....

  9. #9
    Senior Member Jabberwocky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenKinG View Post
    Best way to play blackjack full time, would be to have a job on the side. Job can sustain the variance and allow you to play bigger stakes. Of course if you're wealthy you wont need a job if you have about 100-300k saved up. There's also another reason for having a job and playing blackjack on the side, but I wont go into it as it is illegal LOL
    Nothing is illegal just ant-policy.

  10. #10
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    I would say that in order to make a living gambling you would need to have more than blackjack in your arsenal of AP moves. Poker, tournaments, coupons, hole carding, and sports betting are some of the other things that are profitable opportunities. The problem with blackjack is the fluctuation in results is severe to the extent that the cash flow is unreliable. A steady income is what you seem to want but that is not going to happen. It is possible you can have losing streaks that last for hundreds of hours no matter how much you study and practice.

  11. #11


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    Quote Originally Posted by SauceBoss View Post
    Hello all (and Happy Thanksgiving BTW!)

    I'm relatively new to the game. I'm mastered BS, but still practicing my card counting skills until I can do it in my sleep. I've also read about 5-6 books on the subject by the masters (Wong, Snyder, etc.) Before I got the bug, I have only played occasionally just for fun. Maybe drop a couple hundred bucks a few times a year at the local casino.

    Anyways, something I have yet to come across that Im hoping you guys can answer, or at least point me in the right direction. How exactly does one "make a living" playing blackjack? What I mean by that is, at what point and at what amount/percentage do you start using your winnings to "pay the bills" so to speak.

    I'm looking for both a mathimatical, maybe industry standard approach, as well as some stories from people that have actually done it.

    The reason I am asking is this: I plan on retiring, or at least semi-retiring in the next 4-6 years. I will have more time to go to the casino as well as an actual bankroll to play with. I would like to be able.to supplement my income by about $500/wk playing blackjack.

    These are my initial thoughts:

    1) Starting bankroll of $10,000

    2) $10,000 ÷ 400 units = $25 minimum bet

    3) $25 min. bet x 1.68 unit per hour win rate =$42/hr.

    4) $500 goal ÷ $42/hr win rate = 11.90 hours one must play to achieve this result.
    You calculate it wrong. Assuming you are playing 6 or 8 deck game, you need a bankroll equal to 200 max bets.

    1) You have $10000 BR.

    2) $10000 / 200 = $50 max bet
    Shoe game, you need 16 to 1 spread.
    $50/16 = $3 minimum bet

    3) Assume you can find a table with $3 minimum
    $3 min. bet x 1.69 unit per hour win rate = $5 per hour win rate

    4) $500 goal / $5 = 100 hours you must play to achieve the goal.
    You need to play 14 hours a day, 7 days a week without taking a break.

  12. #12


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    Thanks for all of the replies everyone. I appreciate all of the input and the time you took to write. Unfortunately no one has really answered the question. BJGenius has come the closest in terms of correcting the math and letting me see the error of my ways.

    People have been counting cards for what, 50+ years now? There are hundreds of books on blackjack and yet no one has addressed this subject? There's been billions of sims ran and calculations for every mathematical possibility imaginable. I'm sure 99% of people that play this game have at least dreamt of playing professionally. Is this where the dream ends? Lol or is it just so few people have actually done it, no ones willing to give up what they know?

    Ok, so since everyone seems to be caught up on the large bankroll, lets start backwards. Say you have a million dollar bankroll to work with. What can one expect to make annually with the lowest possible risk of ruin? Most likely pocketing some in addition to adding to the bankroll. How do people on a team get paid? I remember watching a movie about a team some time ago about them "closing a bankroll". (It wasnt 21). I suppose one could incorporate that sort of idea into their plan.

    So basically, what do people do, just keep building their bankroll and building their bankroll? Remember, one that dies with the most money still dies. Where's the fun in that. Why not at some point enjoy the fruits of your labor?

  13. #13


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    Quote Originally Posted by SauceBoss View Post
    Hello all (and Happy Thanksgiving BTW!)

    I'm relatively new to the game. I'm mastered BS, but still practicing my card counting skills until I can do it in my sleep. I've also read about 5-6 books on the subject by the masters (Wong, Snyder, etc.) Before I got the bug, I have only played occasionally just for fun. Maybe drop a couple hundred bucks a few times a year at the local casino.

    Anyways, something I have yet to come across that Im hoping you guys can answer, or at least point me in the right direction. How exactly does one "make a living" playing blackjack? What I mean by that is, at what point and at what amount/percentage do you start using your winnings to "pay the bills" so to speak.

    I'm looking for both a mathimatical, maybe industry standard approach, as well as some stories from people that have actually done it.

    The reason I am asking is this: I plan on retiring, or at least semi-retiring in the next 4-6 years. I will have more time to go to the casino as well as an actual bankroll to play with. I would like to be able.to supplement my income by about $500/wk playing blackjack.

    These are my initial thoughts:

    1) Starting bankroll of $10,000

    2) $10,000 ÷ 400 units = $25 minimum bet

    3) $25 min. bet x 1.68 unit per hour win rate =$42/hr.

    4) $500 goal ÷ $42/hr win rate = 11.90 hours one must play to achieve this result.

    I know this is all hypothetical but it sounds reasonable to me. Please let me know where I'm right/wrong, if I'm on the track, how my math should be different, and other things I should consider. Please dont flame me, I'm new and this is why I am asking. We all have to start somewhere.

    Thanks in advance for everyones input
    You will need two bankrolls: one for living expenses and the other for game bankroll. Make them separate. If you going to play blackjack full time make sure you get you risk of ruin down to about .25%. The fluctuation in blackjack is extreme.

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