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Thread: H17 Deviations Correct? Expert OpinionS

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    H17 Deviations Correct? Expert OpinionS

    I've just picked up counting 3 months ago. By basic strategy is 100%, using HI-LO, and I have been using these deviations for H17 games. What are your opinions???

    Thanks - JM

    Pair Splitting

    A pair of tens splits vs. 4 at a true count of 6 and above.
    A pair of tens splits vs. 5 at a true count of 5 and above.
    A pair of tens splits vs. 6 at a true count of 4 and above.
    Soft Totals

    A soft 19 doubles vs. 4 at a true count of 3 and above.
    A soft 19 doubles vs. 5 at a true count of 1 and above.
    A soft 19 doubles vs. 6 at a true count of 0 and above.
    A soft 17 doubles vs. 2 at a true count of 1 and above.
    Hard Totals

    16 stands vs. 9 at a true count of 4 and above (Unless you can surrender).
    16 stands vs. 10 at any positive count (Unless you can surrender).
    16 stands vs. Ace at a true count of 3 and above. (Unless you can surr).
    15 stands vs. 10 at a true count of 4 and above (Unless you can surr).
    15 stands vs. Ace at a true count of 5 and above. (Unless you can surr).
    13 hits vs. 2 at a true count of -1 and below.
    12 stands vs. 2 at a true count of 3 and above.
    12 stands vs. 3 at a true count of 2 and above.
    12 hits vs. 4 at any count below 0.
    10 doubles vs. 10 at a true count of 4 and above.
    10 doubles vs. Ace at a true count of 3 and above.
    9 doubles vs. 2 at a true count of 1 and above.
    9 doubles vs. 7 at a true count of 3 and above.
    8 doubles vs. 6 at a true count of 2 and above.
    Hard Totals- Surrender

    17 always surrenders against a dealer Ace in an H17 game.
    16 surrenders vs. 8 at a true count of 4 and above.
    16 hits vs. 9 and a true count of -1 and below.
    16 always surrenders against 10 and Ace in an H17 game.
    15 surrenders vs. 9 at a true count of 2 and above.
    15 hits vs. 10 at any count below 0.
    15 surrenders vs. Ace at a true -1 and above.
    Last edited by Dtb239; 09-11-2013 at 05:48 PM.

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    It would help to know what count you are using. We may be good at counting but most of us aren't psychic.

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    My apologies, I'm using the hi - lo.

    Note to self - Card counters are not psychic.
    Last edited by Dtb239; 09-11-2013 at 05:52 PM.

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    A soft 17 doubles vs. 2 at a true count of 1 and above.
    If it's a shoe game then you double at a 0>=RC0. Otherwise you stand. Unless you can DD on more than your first two cards in which case the TC>=1.
    My Ability in Blackjack is a Gift from God!!

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    [QUOTE=Dtb239;110812]I've just picked up counting 3 months ago. By basic strategy is 100%, using HI-LO, and I have been using these deviations for H17 games. What are your opinions???

    Thanks - JM

    Hard Totals- Surrender
    17 always surrenders against a dealer Ace in an H17 game.
    ]

    I would Stand on 17 v A at +2 or higher

  6. #6


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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJer View Post
    If it's a shoe game then you double at a 0>=RC0. Otherwise you stand. Unless you can DD on more than your first two cards in which case the TC>=1.
    Thanks, it would be a sooner opportunity to get some more EV. I'm trying to learn how to create charts and run them throught CVCX.

    [QUOTE=Thirdbaseman;110842]
    Quote Originally Posted by Dtb239 View Post
    I've just picked up counting 3 months ago. By basic strategy is 100%, using HI-LO, and I have been using these deviations for H17 games. What are your opinions???

    I would Stand on 17 v A at +2 or higher
    Awesome, I appreciate all the feedback. How would i find out the difference in percentage per each different index play.

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    Many would not work, would get you kicked out or at least, get others at the table and the dealer pissed off. The price is not worth the gain for these plays.

    A pair of tens splits vs. 4 at a true count of 6 and above.
    A pair of tens splits vs. 5 at a true count of 5 and above.
    A pair of tens splits vs. 6 at a true count of 4 and above.
    Soft Totals

    A soft 19 doubles vs. 4 at a true count of 3 and above.
    A soft 19 doubles vs. 5 at a true count of 1 and above.
    A soft 19 doubles vs. 6 at a true count of 0 and above.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dtb239 View Post
    I've just picked up counting 3 months ago. By basic strategy is 100%, using HI-LO, and I have been using these deviations for H17 games. What are your opinions???Thanks - JMPair SplittingA pair of tens splits vs. 4 at a true count of 6 and above.A pair of tens splits vs. 5 at a true count of 5 and above.A pair of tens splits vs. 6 at a true count of 4 and above.Soft TotalsA soft 19 doubles vs. 4 at a true count of 3 and above.A soft 19 doubles vs. 5 at a true count of 1 and above.A soft 19 doubles vs. 6 at a true count of 0 and above.A soft 17 doubles vs. 2 at a true count of 1 and above.Hard Totals16 stands vs. 9 at a true count of 4 and above (Unless you can surrender).16 stands vs. 10 at any positive count (Unless you can surrender).16 stands vs. Ace at a true count of 3 and above. (Unless you can surr).15 stands vs. 10 at a true count of 4 and above (Unless you can surr).15 stands vs. Ace at a true count of 5 and above. (Unless you can surr).13 hits vs. 2 at a true count of -1 and below.12 stands vs. 2 at a true count of 3 and above.12 stands vs. 3 at a true count of 2 and above.12 hits vs. 4 at any count below 0.10 doubles vs. 10 at a true count of 4 and above.10 doubles vs. Ace at a true count of 3 and above.9 doubles vs. 2 at a true count of 1 and above.9 doubles vs. 7 at a true count of 3 and above.8 doubles vs. 6 at a true count of 2 and above.Hard Totals- Surrender17 always surrenders against a dealer Ace in an H17 game.16 surrenders vs. 8 at a true count of 4 and above.16 hits vs. 9 and a true count of -1 and below.16 always surrenders against 10 and Ace in an H17 game.15 surrenders vs. 9 at a true count of 2 and above.15 hits vs. 10 at any count below 0.15 surrenders vs. Ace at a true -1 and above.
    Doubling Soft 19 v 6 is basic strategy; you stand whenever the count is negative. You stand on 17 v A at +2. You hit 16 v 10 at -3, and 16 v A at -5. You hit 15 v A at -1 and below. 10 v 10 has a risk-averse index of +8 as it is extremely volatile; I always make sure my count is higher than +4 before doubling.

  9. #9


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    Many would not work, would get you kicked out or at least, get others at the table and the dealer pissed off. The price is not worth the gain for these plays.

    A pair of tens splits vs. 4 at a true count of 6 and above.
    A pair of tens splits vs. 5 at a true count of 5 and above.
    A pair of tens splits vs. 6 at a true count of 4 and above.
    Soft Totals

    A soft 19 doubles vs. 4 at a true count of 3 and above.
    A soft 19 doubles vs. 5 at a true count of 1 and above.
    A soft 19 doubles vs. 6 at a true count of 0 and above.
    I thought this is all about generating EV. If its an opportunity to make money aren't we suppose to take it. Ive been Wonging in at +2, playing for two hours top. It's ok if players and dealers get mad, I just try and carry on.

  10. #10


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dtb239 View Post
    I thought this is all about generating EV. If its an opportunity to make money aren't we suppose to take it. Ive been Wonging in at +2, playing for two hours top. It's ok if players and dealers get mad, I just try and carry on.
    I use those plays quite often. It is all about EV, mostly . He is telling you not to do those plays, I imagine, because where he plays and at his bet level, he'd be tossed out--and not playing does not get you any EV. He also has a good point--people do get angry and mean making the experience less enjoyable, and even hostile. That is not, however, something that would stop me, though I may not make a conspicuous play if it is borderline to avoid ploppy terrorism. It depends on your bet level, your style, the pit crew, etc. If you want to do them, do them. If you do not need to avoid these plays for cover, then by all means, make the plays.
    Last edited by Rainmaker; 09-13-2013 at 10:42 AM.

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