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Thread: Basic Strategy question

  1. 08-24-2013, 10:05 AM #1
    way2phill
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    Basic Strategy question

    Hey everyone, first post here. I've been lurking a bit lately. So thanks for all of the insight. I'm not looking to become a pro or rich. I just enjoy gambling and would like to minimize the houses edge as much as possible. Basically, I just want to know if this Basic Strategy for H17 is correct. I've seen some slight variations.

    5-8 hit
    9 D 3-6
    10 D 2-9
    11 D 2-10
    12 stand 4 5 6
    13-16 stand 2-6
    17-20 stand
    A2/3 D 5+6
    A4/5 D 4-6
    A6 D 3-6
    A7 D 3-6 stand 2,7,8
    A8/9 stand
    2s/3s split 2-7
    4s split 5/6
    5s D 2-9
    6s split 2-6
    7s split 2-7
    9s split 2-6,8,9 stand 7,10,A
    10s stand
    8s/As split always

    It has taken me approx 10 hours of studying flash cards/ running iphone apps to master this. I just want someone to weigh in if anything is missing, so I can start implementing it now. I see people recommending soft 19 to double against a 6, is that basic strategy or a counters deviation? Any help would be greatly appreciated. -phill
    Last edited by way2phill; 08-24-2013 at 12:43 PM.
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  2. 08-24-2013, 12:08 PM #2
    HowMany
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    phill- Your post is very difficult to read in its current format. Perhaps if you present it in a more readable format, you will get the help you desire.

    Double A8 vs 6 is basic strategy for a H17 multi-deck game.
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  3. 08-24-2013, 12:31 PM #3
    Dog Hand
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    It depends (as so many things do!)...

    way2phill,

    The answer depends on the house rules: number of decks, whether or not you can double down after a split, etc.

    Below is the correct B.S. for 6 decks, H17, DOA, DAS, SPL3, NRSA:

    Code:
    6 decks, H17, DOA, DAS, SPL3, NRSA, CDZ-
  Hard |                Dealer's up card
  hand | 2    3    4    5    6    7    8    9    10   A
-----------------------------------------------------------
 10- 9 | S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S   
       |
 10- 8 | S    S    S    S    S    S    S    s    s    s   
       |
 10- 7 | s    s    s    s    s    s    s    s    s    s   
  9- 8 | s    s    s    s    s    s    s    s    s    s   
       |
 10- 6 | s    s    s    s    s    h    h    h    h    h   
  9- 7 | s    s    s    s    s    h    h    h    h    h   
       |
 10- 5 | s    s    s    s    s    h    h    h    h    h   
  9- 6 | s    s    s    s    s    h    h    h    h    h   
  8- 7 | s    s    s    s    s    h    h    h    h    h   
       |
 10- 4 | s    s    s    s    s    h    h    h    h    h   
  9- 5 | s    s    s    s    s    h    h    h    h    h   
  8- 6 | s    s    s    s    s    h    h    h    h    h   
       |
 10- 3 | s    s    s    s    s    h    h    h    h    h   
  9- 4 | s    s    s    s    s    h    h    h    h    h   
  8- 5 | s    s    s    s    s    h    h    h    h    h   
  7- 6 | s    s    s    s    s    h    h    h    h    h   
       |
 10- 2 | h    h    s    s    s    h    h    h    h    h   
  9- 3 | h    h    s    s    s    h    h    h    h    h   
  8- 4 | h    h    s    s    s    h    h    h    h    h   
  7- 5 | h    h    s    s    s    h    h    h    h    h   
       |
  9- 2 | DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH  
  8- 3 | DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH  
  7- 4 | DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH  
  6- 5 | DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH  
       |
  8- 2 | DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   H    H   
  7- 3 | DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   H    H   
  6- 4 | DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   H    H   
       |
  7- 2 | H    DH   DH   DH   DH   H    H    h    h    h   
  6- 3 | H    DH   DH   DH   DH   H    H    h    h    h   
  5- 4 | H    DH   DH   DH   DH   H    H    h    h    h   
       |
  6- 2 | h    H    H    H    H    H    h    h    h    h   
  5- 3 | h    H    H    H    H    H    h    h    h    h   
       |
  5- 2 | h    h    h    H    H    h    h    h    h    h   
  4- 3 | h    h    h    H    H    h    h    h    h    h   
       |
  4- 2 | h    h    h    h    H    h    h    h    h    h   
       |
  3- 2 | h    h    h    h    H    h    h    h    h    h   
       |
  Soft |                Dealer's up card
  hand | 2    3    4    5    6    7    8    9    10   A
-----------------------------------------------------------
  A- 9 | S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S   
  A- 8 | S    S    S    S    DS   S    S    S    S    S   
  A- 7 | DS   DS   DS   DS   DS   S    S    h    h    h   
  A- 6 | h    DH   DH   DH   DH   H    h    h    h    h   
  A- 5 | h    H    DH   DH   DH   h    h    h    h    h   
  A- 4 | h    H    DH   DH   DH   H    h    h    h    h   
  A- 3 | H    H    H    DH   DH   H    H    h    h    h   
  A- 2 | H    H    H    DH   DH   H    H    h    h    h   
  Pair |                Dealer's up card
  hand | 2    3    4    5    6    7    8    9    10   A
-----------------------------------------------------------
  A- A | PH   PH   PH   PH   PDH  PH   PH   Ph   Ph   Ph  
 10-10 | S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S   
  9- 9 | PS   PS   PS   PS   PS   S    PS   ps   s    s   
  8- 8 | Ps   Ps   Ps   Ps   Ps   Ph   ph   ph   ph   ph  
  7- 7 | ps   ps   Ps   Ps   Ps   ph   h    h    h    h   
  6- 6 | ph   ph   Ps   Ps   Ps   h    h    h    h    h   
  5- 5 | DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   H    H   
  4- 4 | h    H    H    PH   PH   H    h    h    h    h   
  3- 3 | ph   ph   Ph   Ph   PH   ph   h    h    h    h   
  2- 2 | ph   ph   Ph   Ph   PH   Ph   h    h    h    h   
-----------------------------------------------------------
S = Stand
H = Hit
D = Double down
P = Split
Uppercase indicates action is favorable for the player
Lowercase indicates action is favorable for the house
When more than one option is listed, options are listed from left to right in order of preference.
    Up  |
   card | Overall expected value (%)
---------------------------------
     2  |    9.242669524
     3  |   12.611845778
     4  |   16.319034164
     5  |   20.348277913
     6  |   23.870809618
     7  |   14.460102687
     8  |    5.757242137
     9  |   -4.114157566
    10  |  -17.313880618
     A  |  -37.240360381
---------------------------------
  Total |   -0.615389123
 

    Up  |              Probability of outcome of dealer's hand
   card |  Bust   |   17    |   18    |   19    |   20    |   21    |Blackjack
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     2  | 0.35666 | 0.13007 | 0.13598 | 0.13161 | 0.12566 | 0.12002 | 0.00000
     3  | 0.37696 | 0.12590 | 0.13193 | 0.12666 | 0.12218 | 0.11637 | 0.00000
     4  | 0.39847 | 0.12246 | 0.12541 | 0.12262 | 0.11783 | 0.11322 | 0.00000
     5  | 0.41963 | 0.11809 | 0.12304 | 0.11822 | 0.11243 | 0.10859 | 0.00000
     6  | 0.43926 | 0.11506 | 0.11457 | 0.11504 | 0.11018 | 0.10588 | 0.00000
     7  | 0.26194 | 0.36921 | 0.13793 | 0.07843 | 0.07868 | 0.07382 | 0.00000
     8  | 0.24369 | 0.12894 | 0.35995 | 0.12872 | 0.06922 | 0.06947 | 0.00000
     9  | 0.22924 | 0.12031 | 0.11735 | 0.35185 | 0.12037 | 0.06088 | 0.00000
    10  | 0.21247 | 0.11191 | 0.11167 | 0.11194 | 0.34001 | 0.03482 | 0.07717
     A  | 0.13915 | 0.05727 | 0.14282 | 0.14294 | 0.14328 | 0.06586 | 0.30868
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Total | 0.28576 | 0.13346 | 0.14120 | 0.13568 | 0.18153 | 0.07487 | 0.04749

Composition-dependent stand/hit strategy variations:
----------------------------------------------------
( 24) Hard 16 vs. T : stand except, 88, 79, 6T, 466, 367, 33T, 268, 2266, 2239, 22336, 222T, 222226, A69, A366, A267, A23T, A2229, A22236, AA68, AA266, AA22T, AA22226, AAA67, AAAA66
-----
  24
    Hope this helps!

    Dog Hand
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  4. 08-24-2013, 12:44 PM #4
    way2phill
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    Quote Originally Posted by HowMany View Post
    phill- Your post is very difficult to read in its current format. Perhaps if you present it in a more readable format, you will get the help you desire.

    Double A8 vs 6 is basic strategy for a H17 multi-deck game.
    Sorry, I didn't realize it removed the spaces after approval. Spaced everything out again.
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  5. 08-24-2013, 12:45 PM #5
    way2phill
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    Dog, everything seems exact except the number of decks. It would be 8D and the same exact rules. Is the chart you supplied good for both 6/8 D?
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  6. 08-24-2013, 01:25 PM #6
    paymypush
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    Looks good phill. Only split those 4s if double after split is offered otherwise hit.
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  7. 08-24-2013, 02:44 PM #7
    Nyne
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    If I read it right, the strategy you posted is for a S17 DAS shoe game. For H17 DAS, you should also double 11vA, A7v2, and A8v6. Look at this link for the correct basic strategy for 4-8 decks: http://wizardofodds.com/games/blackj...ategy/4-decks/
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  8. 08-24-2013, 02:53 PM #8
    Dog Hand
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    Yes, same strategy...

    Quote Originally Posted by way2phill View Post
    Dog, everything seems exact except the number of decks. It would be 8D and the same exact rules. Is the chart you supplied good for both 6/8 D?
    way2phill,

    The only changes are the Expected Values. Just for completeness, here is the 8D version:

    Code:
    8 decks, H17, DOA, DAS, SPL3, NRSA, CDZ-
  Hard |                Dealer's up card
  hand | 2    3    4    5    6    7    8    9    10   A
-----------------------------------------------------------
 10- 9 | S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S   
       |
 10- 8 | S    S    S    S    S    S    S    s    s    s   
       |
 10- 7 | s    s    s    s    s    s    s    s    s    s   
  9- 8 | s    s    s    s    s    s    s    s    s    s   
       |
 10- 6 | s    s    s    s    s    h    h    h    h    h   
  9- 7 | s    s    s    s    s    h    h    h    h    h   
       |
 10- 5 | s    s    s    s    s    h    h    h    h    h   
  9- 6 | s    s    s    s    s    h    h    h    h    h   
  8- 7 | s    s    s    s    s    h    h    h    h    h   
       |
 10- 4 | s    s    s    s    s    h    h    h    h    h   
  9- 5 | s    s    s    s    s    h    h    h    h    h   
  8- 6 | s    s    s    s    s    h    h    h    h    h   
       |
 10- 3 | s    s    s    s    s    h    h    h    h    h   
  9- 4 | s    s    s    s    s    h    h    h    h    h   
  8- 5 | s    s    s    s    s    h    h    h    h    h   
  7- 6 | s    s    s    s    s    h    h    h    h    h   
       |
 10- 2 | h    h    s    s    s    h    h    h    h    h   
  9- 3 | h    h    s    s    s    h    h    h    h    h   
  8- 4 | h    h    s    s    s    h    h    h    h    h   
  7- 5 | h    h    s    s    s    h    h    h    h    h   
       |
  9- 2 | DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH  
  8- 3 | DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH  
  7- 4 | DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH  
  6- 5 | DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH  
       |
  8- 2 | DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   H    H   
  7- 3 | DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   H    H   
  6- 4 | DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   H    H   
       |
  7- 2 | H    DH   DH   DH   DH   H    H    h    h    h   
  6- 3 | H    DH   DH   DH   DH   H    H    h    h    h   
  5- 4 | H    DH   DH   DH   DH   H    H    h    h    h   
       |
  6- 2 | h    H    H    H    H    H    h    h    h    h   
  5- 3 | h    H    H    H    H    H    h    h    h    h   
       |
  5- 2 | h    h    h    H    H    h    h    h    h    h   
  4- 3 | h    h    h    h    H    h    h    h    h    h   
       |
  4- 2 | h    h    h    h    H    h    h    h    h    h   
       |
  3- 2 | h    h    h    h    H    h    h    h    h    h   
       |
  Soft |                Dealer's up card
  hand | 2    3    4    5    6    7    8    9    10   A
-----------------------------------------------------------
  A- 9 | S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S   
  A- 8 | S    S    S    S    DS   S    S    S    S    S   
  A- 7 | DS   DS   DS   DS   DS   S    S    h    h    h   
  A- 6 | h    DH   DH   DH   DH   H    h    h    h    h   
  A- 5 | h    H    DH   DH   DH   h    h    h    h    h   
  A- 4 | h    H    DH   DH   DH   H    h    h    h    h   
  A- 3 | H    H    H    DH   DH   H    H    h    h    h   
  A- 2 | H    H    H    DH   DH   H    H    h    h    h   
  Pair |                Dealer's up card
  hand | 2    3    4    5    6    7    8    9    10   A
-----------------------------------------------------------
  A- A | PH   PH   PH   PH   PDH  PH   PH   Ph   Ph   Ph  
 10-10 | S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S   
  9- 9 | PS   PS   PS   PS   PS   S    PS   ps   s    s   
  8- 8 | Ps   Ps   Ps   Ps   Ps   Ph   ph   ph   ph   ph  
  7- 7 | ps   ps   Ps   Ps   Ps   ph   h    h    h    h   
  6- 6 | ph   ph   Ps   Ps   Ps   h    h    h    h    h   
  5- 5 | DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   DH   H    H   
  4- 4 | h    H    H    PH   PH   H    h    h    h    h   
  3- 3 | ph   ph   Ph   Ph   PH   ph   h    h    h    h   
  2- 2 | ph   ph   Ph   Ph   PH   Ph   h    h    h    h   
-----------------------------------------------------------
S = Stand
H = Hit
D = Double down
P = Split
Uppercase indicates action is favorable for the player
Lowercase indicates action is favorable for the house
When more than one option is listed, options are listed from left to right in order of preference.
    Up  |
   card | Overall expected value (%)
---------------------------------
     2  |    9.199336657
     3  |   12.547665546
     4  |   16.210025716
     5  |   20.176745790
     6  |   23.827060161
     7  |   14.446546319
     8  |    5.773773293
     9  |   -4.099890703
    10  |  -17.325165933
     A  |  -37.159799122
---------------------------------
  Total |   -0.644553852
 

    Up  |              Probability of outcome of dealer's hand
   card |  Bust   |   17    |   18    |   19    |   20    |   21    |Blackjack
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     2  | 0.35668 | 0.13009 | 0.13612 | 0.13153 | 0.12566 | 0.11992 | 0.00000
     3  | 0.37689 | 0.12601 | 0.13194 | 0.12675 | 0.12209 | 0.11632 | 0.00000
     4  | 0.39812 | 0.12244 | 0.12588 | 0.12265 | 0.11784 | 0.11306 | 0.00000
     5  | 0.41914 | 0.11816 | 0.12301 | 0.11825 | 0.11278 | 0.10867 | 0.00000
     6  | 0.43931 | 0.11501 | 0.11464 | 0.11499 | 0.11020 | 0.10585 | 0.00000
     7  | 0.26203 | 0.36905 | 0.13790 | 0.07848 | 0.07867 | 0.07388 | 0.00000
     8  | 0.24395 | 0.12885 | 0.35980 | 0.12868 | 0.06926 | 0.06945 | 0.00000
     9  | 0.22904 | 0.12023 | 0.11801 | 0.35158 | 0.12028 | 0.06086 | 0.00000
    10  | 0.21238 | 0.11179 | 0.11161 | 0.11181 | 0.34056 | 0.03474 | 0.07711
     A  | 0.13909 | 0.05733 | 0.14292 | 0.14300 | 0.14326 | 0.06596 | 0.30843
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Total | 0.28567 | 0.13341 | 0.14128 | 0.13563 | 0.18171 | 0.07484 | 0.04745

Composition-dependent stand/hit strategy variations:
----------------------------------------------------
( 26) Hard 16 vs. T : stand except, 88, 79, 6T, 466, 367, 33T, 268, 24T, 2266, 2239, 22336, 222T, 22246, 222226, A69, A366, A267, A23T, A2229, A22236, AA68, AA266, AA22T, AA22226, AAA67, AAAA66
-----
  26
    By the way, I obtained these results using the excellent "blackjack7" program written by another poster here named "ericfarmer". If you search for his posts, you can find his website, from which you can download the program.

    Hope this helps!

    Dog Hand
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  9. 08-24-2013, 07:33 PM #9
    HowMany
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    You should surrender the following hands in a H17 game:

    15 vs 10, A
    16 vs 9, 10, A
    17 vs A
    8,8 vs A
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  10. 08-24-2013, 08:43 PM #10
    RS
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    http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bjbse.php

    Scroll down, look to the left, where it says, "Choose Your Strategy". Select the rules of the game you play, click, "Get the Strategy!" button, and voila! That is the chart you should memorize.
    "Everyone wants to be rich, but nobody wants to work for it." -Ryan Howard [The Office]
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  11. 08-25-2013, 02:33 AM #11
    way2phill
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    Thanks for all of the replies, only 2-3 changes from the BS I was studying. Greatly appreciated.
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