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Thread: Buying "surrender hands" from other players

  1. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21gunsalute View Post
    Wrong Tthree, and you know it very well. I clearly stated that if you tried to buy MY surrender that these would be MY terms. It was not a moot point.
    What makes the point moot isn't your terms but the fact that nobody trying to get +EV buying surrenders would accept your terms. This is what everybody else has been trying to get you to understand. A shorter version of the exchange is a player asks to buy your surrender but no deal is made. Period. The rest of your discussion is a moot point. Nobody will take your counter offer if it is up front. The only reason to discuss further is if it is not up front. That is obviously the way everyone reasonable person discussed your deal. Either it would not happen or a deception was perpetrated. There is not a third option. If you can't understand that is the logic in this discussion then you will never understand. I and many others have explained this over and over. Most others have just given up a long time ago saying you are hopeless. I keep trying to help you understand but I think all of them are right.

    I am sorry about the way things went and if you can't understand people don't want to discuss where we should go snow skiing this weekend when it is the middle of summer and none of the places being discussed will have any snow. They want to talk about going surfing or water skiing because they could actually do that. Then someone entertains the lets go snow skiing by talking about traveling to the other hemisphere to find snow but you insist on discussing snow skiing this weekend on slopes with no snow and no hope of having snow saying you are not talking about snow skiing where there is snow. It is really hard for anyone to have that discussion. We can discuss going to the moon with no food because it is made of blue cheese next if you like. I don't think you will get any serious discussion about that either without changing the moot points in the plan to fit reality.

  2. #223


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tthree View Post
    What makes the point moot isn't your terms but the fact that nobody trying to get +EV buying surrenders would accept your terms. This is what everybody else has been trying to get you to understand. A shorter version of the exchange is a player asks to buy your surrender but no deal is made. Period. The rest of your discussion is a moot point. Nobody will take your counter offer if it is up front. The only reason to discuss further is if it is not up front. That is obviously the way everyone reasonable person discussed your deal. Either it would not happen or a deception was perpetrated. There is not a third option. If you can't understand that is the logic in this discussion then you will never understand. I and many others have explained this over and over. Most others have just given up a long time ago saying you are hopeless. I keep trying to help you understand but I think all of them are right. I am sorry about the way things went and if you can't understand people don't want to discuss where we should go snow skiing this weekend when it is the middle of summer and none of the places being discussed will have any snow. They want to talk about going surfing or water skiing because they could actually do that. Then someone entertains the lets go snow skiing by talking about traveling to the other hemisphere to find snow but you insist on discussing snow skiing this weekend on slopes with no snow and no hope of having snow saying you are not talking about snow skiing where there is snow. It is really hard for anyone to have that discussion. We can discuss going to the moon with no food because it is made of blue cheese next if you like. I don't think you will get any serious discussion about that either without changing the moot points in the plan to fit reality.
    LOL. 21 is angrily demanding to continue discussing going snow skiing during the summer. And Tthree is like, maybe we should talk about something more productive?

  3. #224


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tthree View Post
    What makes the point moot isn't your terms but the fact that nobody trying to get +EV buying surrenders would accept your terms. This is what everybody else has been trying to get you to understand. A shorter version of the exchange is a player asks to buy your surrender but no deal is made. Period. The rest of your discussion is a moot point. Nobody will take your counter offer if it is up front. The only reason to discuss further is if it is not up front. That is obviously the way everyone reasonable person discussed your deal. Either it would not happen or a deception was perpetrated. There is not a third option. If you can't understand that is the logic in this discussion then you will never understand. I and many others have explained this over and over. Most others have just given up a long time ago saying you are hopeless. I keep trying to help you understand but I think all of them are right.

    I am sorry about the way things went and if you can't understand people don't want to discuss where we should go snow skiing this weekend when it is the middle of summer and none of the places being discussed will have any snow. They want to talk about going surfing or water skiing because they could actually do that. Then someone entertains the lets go snow skiing by talking about traveling to the other hemisphere to find snow but you insist on discussing snow skiing this weekend on slopes with no snow and no hope of having snow saying you are not talking about snow skiing where there is snow. It is really hard for anyone to have that discussion. We can discuss going to the moon with no food because it is made of blue cheese next if you like. I don't think you will get any serious discussion about that either without changing the moot points in the plan to fit reality.
    I understand perfectly that no one in their right mind is going to take me up on my offer, just as no one in their right mind would take you up your terms of "buying the surrender" because they gain nothing by doing so, are letting themselves be taken advantage of (doing the work for someone else who is earning all the profits while the "seller" is losing money) and are slowing down the game. That was not my major point in opposing the "buying of surrenders" however, the main point being that it will make you stick out like a sore thumb to casino personnel. Why you chose to bash me over this minor point is beyond me.

    And once again, simply saying that you're sorry for the way things went is not an apology at all. Things went the way they did because you deliberately made false accusations about my character and kept doing so repeatedly! There is absolutely no reason or excuse for that kind of behavior. If you disagree with my assessment of the situation, fine, but accusing another person of being a troll, saying he'd make a bad teammate and accusing said person of reneging on a deal is unwarranted, uncalled for, underhanded and totally illogical under these circumstances. I made it perfectly clear where I was coming from and you twisted what I said and made false accusations. Once again, why did you do this?

  4. #225


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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    LOL. 21 is angrily demanding to continue discussing going snow skiing during the summer. And Tthree is like, maybe we should talk about something more productive?
    And just like Tthree you're now making a false accusation! No one is discussing snow skiing.

  5. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21gunsalute View Post
    no one in their right mind would take you up your terms of "buying the surrender" because they gain nothing by doing so, are letting themselves be taken advantage of (doing the work for someone else who is earning all the profits while the "seller" is losing money) and are slowing down the game.
    You are waaaay off base with this comment. Most people play to have fun and could care less about game speed or another player getting a chance to win as long as it doesn't hurt them. Even if it does too many will play along even at a cost. You are using an AP mindset and trying to place that on nonAP's. If you let this attitude leak out at the tables you are tipping your hand. If someone says can I buy your surrender and you are unwilling to do it that raises no eyebrows but if your response is to try to take advantage of a player only trying to keep your mistake on the players ledger rather than the casino's you have tipped anyone off that you are an AP. This is exactly why offering to buy surrenders is a bad idea. The flip side is bartering to get a partner is a bad idea. Both for the exact same reasons.

    As for my comments on team play your attitude here on this offer from another player shows a lack of team thought process. If all the sudden you decide you have nothing to gain from the team for whatever reason you seem to be indicating that you would find terms that did work to your advantage. I don't know about others but that would make me very suspicious of a teammate with that attitude. You must assess what people are capable of by their previous history. You showed you would not work to benefit another unless you got something out of it. That would be a great concern to me. I wish you would just drop this. Most people see things the way I am seeing them as this thread indicates. You are not helping yourself by continuing.

    Most people see you as either totally wrong or in a tremendous minority of people by thinking that you should never allow a fellow BJ player to have an advantage that costs you nothing but rather would try to take advantage of him in hopes he didn't know what he was doing. The offer made to you cost you nothing. You get your price either way. The trouble of a tap on the felt or a waive of the hand following another's direction can be donated as the rate for that should be less than a penny. The counter offer you make is a clear attempt to take advantage of another player. That is all I need to know about who you are when assessing whether or not I can trust you. Fortunately for you others may feel differently and see your need to squeeze out every advantage from any source even another player as a big plus. I would be worried you would seek advantage from me if you were my partner.

  6. #227
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    21,

    Just give it up, at this point you are being played by some of the posters here. It matters not what some here think of you, but that those that do know you,, know better.

    Norm, you should consider locking this thread.

    Ouchez

  7. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ouchez View Post
    Norm, you should consider locking this thread.

    Ouchez
    X2.

    I am amazed it didn't happen days ago.

  8. #229


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ouchez View Post
    21,

    Just give it up, at this point you are being played by some of the posters here. It matters not what some here think of you, but that those that do know you,, know better.

    Norm, you should consider locking this thread.

    Ouchez
    Like i said this thread should have died a hundred times.

  9. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    Like i said this thread should have died a hundred times.
    The quality of a tree is known by the fruit that it bears.
    Vincit Qui Patitur

  10. #231


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    Quote Originally Posted by 21gunsalute View Post
    And just like Tthree you're now making a false accusation! No one is discussing snow skiing.
    Seriously? I found Tthree's analogy to be humorous and this somehow means I'm making a false accusation againt you? Someone might think you are making a false accusation. But I know better, you are just that far out there. When I read this, like others, I thought that it should have been dropped...and Tthree's the main contributor (aside from you), and he should drop it. But you're pretty dang snippy, on top of being completely wrong about most things. Everything you say kind of begs for a retort, explaining why you're incorrect. You're are completely incorrect here becuase I OBVIOUSLY did not think you were actually talking about snow skiing. To actually bother and complain about it as if you took it seriously, is deceptive.
    Last edited by Rainmaker; 09-15-2013 at 11:37 PM.

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