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Thread: When the dealer knows

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    When the dealer knows

    I mostly play with completely clueless dealers. However recently I have found myself in situations where the dealer obviously knew what I was doing and indicated as much. For example I played with a dealer a few weeks back that would always ask "you're going to leave now aren't you?" as soon as I lost a hand in a highly negative count or "you sure know when to bet" at the opposite. I always wonder what to do, right now I sort of play dumb.

    I tip a decent % of my EV win or lose (mostly because i believe in tipping not for an edge) and am always super nice to the dealers. I have played with some that have given me incredible edges such as 40 card cuts with a look up when the house std is 1.7, early surrender (rare but its out there) advice on floor staff to watch for but on the flip side I see others that I observe immediately talking to the floor about my play right after I leave the table.

    Was just wondering how to best identify and cultivate these quality two way potential relationships. I have noticed that young men and older white women are probably the most helpful but just being nice doesnt work for everyone. Furthermore how far do you push it. For example is it worth asking something like "can you cut the deck in the back, I'd like to get some extra action." or the like?

  2. #2


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    Quote Originally Posted by biggg View Post
    For example is it worth asking something like "can you cut the deck in the back, I'd like to get some extra action." or the like?
    That's a bit too aggressive, IMO. As far as the dealer making comments, I would avoid that dealer in the future.

  3. #3
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    I couldn't agree more Forme. If a dealer thinks you are counting they should give you a better cut if they want more tips and be silent.

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    The dealer seldom "knows" anything except that he hates his job. Sometimes the dealer is a dual rate (works as a supervisor on other days) and that employee can be dangerous. One of the best reasons not to camp out at any single table is you give employees too much time to watch you play. That said, most dealers don't know their head from a hole in the ground when it comes to advantage play.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baberuth View Post
    I couldn't agree more Forme. If a dealer thinks you are counting they should give you a better cut if they want more tips and be silent.
    If it's a table for table place yeah. If I'm a dealer heads up with a counter and I gotta split that tip with 100 other dealers, I'd move the cut card noticeably forward so I can have an empty table. The 25 cents at best of your tip that I'm keeping versus standing and not working for a few minutes, easy call. I'm not a dealer, but you know some of them think that way. If they know and slide the cut card forward when you are playing heads up, I doubt they care if you're counting, they just know how to create less work for themselves.

  6. #6


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    Some dealers are observant , just be careful if they are dual rated.You would not want to bump into a dealer that believes CC is borderline cheating ! I had a few incident where the dealer cut deep n where some dealer turn a 5/6 into 4/6 !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcallister3200 View Post
    If it's a table for table place yeah. If I'm a dealer heads up with a counter and I gotta split that tip with 100 other dealers, I'd move the cut card noticeably forward so I can have an empty table. The 25 cents at best of your tip that I'm keeping versus standing and not working for a few minutes, easy call. I'm not a dealer, but you know some of them think that way. If they know and slide the cut card forward when you are playing heads up, I doubt they care if you're counting, they just know how to create less work for themselves.
    A lot of dealers are bored to death with an empty table and actually prefer to do something (deal) rather than nothing (standing, staring at people passing by).

    I've had one dealer keep the count for me while he was dealing. I hadn't played with him ever before and it started almost as soon as I sat down at his empty table. I tried playing dumb, acting as though I didn't know what this information was good for, asking him "is that good or bad? ... so should I raise my bet now?" etc. I thought it would be bad if I just left immediately (I would look spooked out) so I played for a while. I was tipping every few hands, thanking him for his advice (so I said, although I didn't need it... it was actually more like thanking him for not busting me).
    Vaya con Dios...

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    I agree with that Utah, it depends on their personality, whether they like people or not. I would think a lot of dealers would like to stand and do nothing for say 5 minutes, but would rather have a busy table than stand for 30 minutes doing nothing. Sometimes those dealers who know, don't care at all but make comments about your play can be the worst. They don't have any ill intentions, but don't realize how dangerous they are when their comments are overheard by the wrong person.
    Last edited by mcallister3200; 08-12-2013 at 08:55 AM.

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    I played at a table the other day where the dealer said, "A lot of small cards came out that hand, you guys should raise your bet." And he was right, so I said "why not" and threw out 5x my bet of the last round!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcallister3200 View Post
    The 25 cents at best of your tip that I'm keeping versus standing and not working for a few minutes, easy call
    Wow, not me. Work never drags on longer than when there is nothing to do. I guess there are 2 extremes. The ones that hate to stand idle and see that as agony and those that don't like to do anything and feel there is nothing better in life than to have to stand there for hours with nothing to do. To me there would be no greater torture than to stand there with nothing to do. An hour would seem like a day. When you are kept busy 4 hours can seem like less than an hour.

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    I played with a dealer that always cut extra thin if I played. I tipped him regularly for the service. One day he said, "I don't know why people always try to take your extra spot when you don't bet it. You would think they would know there is a good reason you aren't betting it." He had been working for over a decade and knew well what went on. He realized long ago the casino only pays him a flat wage and the customers compensation had to be earned.

    I had another dealer tell the table to stop telling me what to do and that I am playing wrong because I knew what I was doing. He said that he knew the game better than most anyone but I was much better than he was. After that everyone was asking for advice.

    If dealers pay attention over the years they know what is going on. It really doesn't help them to be against you. There are still some pr*cks that want you to lose. I was having a tough session and this one dealer was reveling in it like he was winning money. Everyone at the table was in the same situation to a degree with the covariance. We all got up and left but I told the floor why we were all leaving. I said I don't mind losing but to have a dealer enjoy your misery is mot the experience I am here for. Everyone else at the table is also leaving for the same reason. I never saw that dealer again.

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    I have tipped on the cut before (first hand), is leaving right after the cut too obvious? I have done this twice. Saw the cut and just got up. I thought it generated less heat than playing a few hands and leaving.

  13. #13


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    Quote Originally Posted by biggg View Post
    I have tipped on the cut before (first hand), is leaving right after the cut too obvious? I have done this twice. Saw the cut and just got up. I thought it generated less heat than playing a few hands and leaving.
    Tough to say whether it was a result of this, but I was once backed off within 30 minutes of leaving right after cut. I now either do a white rabbit approach in that situation or if it's not heads up play don't sit down until I see where the card is inserted.

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