Hi Opt 1

**johndaly47** · 07-24-2013, 11:50 AM

Hey BJ players. Hope everyone's sessions this week have been good. I wanted to check with some of you out there that might be familiar with Hi Opt 1 and if you find that it has been a good system for you. I see you essentially have to keep track of the count of cards 3 thru 6 and all 10 cards to keep an accurate running count. It seems to simplify the overall Hi Lo method so just wanted to confirm others have had success. From what I have read the running count then divided by the decks remaining to find the true count make this a really good and advantageous system to use. Thanks for any input.

Just an fyi, I have been practicing a bit online to make sure I have BS strategy down along with memorizing the BS strategy graph to make sure that is down cold for my next trip to the casino. I believe it to be where it needs to be. Next up, some counting practice for small stakes. Thanks again gang.

**Intermediate** · 07-24-2013, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by johndaly47

I wanted to check with some of you out there that might be familiar with Hi Opt 1 and if you find that it has been a good system for you. I see you essentially have to keep track of the count of cards 3 thru 6 and all 10 cards to keep an accurate running count. It seems to simplify the overall Hi Lo method so just wanted to confirm others have had success. From what I have read the running count then divided by the decks remaining to find the true count make this a really good and advantageous system to use. Thanks for any input.

Hi-Opt I requires you to side count aces and make ace adjustments for betting purposes. Per BJA3, Chapter9, Part II, it's SCORE is about even with Hi-Lo in 2D and 6D. Not much point in doing the extra side count and adjustment when you can do a level 1 Hi-Lo count without a side count and adjustment. Just curious - What made you think Hi-Opt 1 was simpler than Hi-Lo?

**ZenMaster_Flash** · 07-24-2013, 03:17 PM

Hi-Opt I was designed with the intention of the user either stepping up to

Hi-Opt II ~ OR ~ adding side-counts for the 7's, 8's, and 9's !

Doing so in a shoe game is a waste of effort, but in a "pitch" game creates a strong count.

**ZenKinG** · 07-24-2013, 07:12 PM

switch to halves for all around

**johndaly47** · 07-25-2013, 06:26 AM

Originally Posted by Intermediate

Hi-Opt I requires you to side count aces and make ace adjustments for betting purposes. Per BJA3, Chapter9, Part II, it's SCORE is about even with Hi-Lo in 2D and 6D. Not much point in doing the extra side count and adjustment when you can do a level 1 Hi-Lo count without a side count and adjustment. Just curious - What made you think Hi-Opt 1 was simpler than Hi-Lo?

Well, it seemed simpler since you didn't have to worry about counting 2s and Aces, but it sounds like I would need to track Aces as well on a side count.............or to your point, just do a Hi Lo count and start from there. Thanks.

**Intermediate** · 07-25-2013, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by johndaly47

Well, it seemed simpler since you didn't have to worry about counting 2s and Aces

As you practice your Running Count, you'll find you are in fact counting all the cards. The ones that you think you aren't counting are really counted with a value of zero, while the others will have values of +1 or -1. In the end, the challenge isn't any different. You just mentally assign different values to different cards.

As you practice, start counting pairs of cards. In Hi-Lo, you'll start associating count values to two card combinations of Low-Low (+2), Low-Medium (+1), Medium-Medium (0), Medium-High (-1) and High-High (-2). You'll be able to count much faster by counting them two at a time. Kind of like taking stairs two at a time.

**johndaly47** · 07-25-2013, 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by Intermediate

As you practice your Running Count, you'll find you are in fact counting all the cards. The ones that you think you aren't counting are really counted with a value of zero, while the others will have values of +1 or -1. In the end, the challenge isn't any different. You just mentally assign different values to different cards.

As you practice, start counting pairs of cards. In Hi-Lo, you'll start associating count values to two card combinations of Low-Low (+2), Low-Medium (+1), Medium-Medium (0), Medium-High (-1) and High-High (-2). You'll be able to count much faster by counting them two at a time. Kind of like taking stairs two at a time.

Sounds good. I had read some of that mentioned as well as you continue to pick up speed and are able to count multiple cards. I mentioned in one other post, some of the dealers are very slow anyway, which helps a newer counter perhaps get off the ground a little bit in live play.

**bigplayer** · 07-25-2013, 02:22 PM

Hi-Opt 1 is a good companion count to High-Low for playing single deck and deeply dealt double deck. With the Ace sidecount it has just as good bet correlation as High-Low but a much higher play efficiency....especially if you use the multi-parameter indexes for Ace. If you don't keep the Ace sidecount High-Opt 1 is very weak. If you can keep an additional sidecount of 7's Hi-Opt 1 becomes extremely powerful. For regular index numbers High-Low and Hi-Opt 1 are almost the same and you only really need to learn one set (if you choose just one set choose Hi-Opt 1).

For shoe games you should just stick to High-Low.

**ZenMaster_Flash** · 07-26-2013, 05:53 PM

ZenKinG,

I beg to differ.

Halves has a nearly perfect Betting Correlation, but the Playing Efficiency that is

the key to success in a ""Pitch Game" is inferior to Hi-Opt II and Advanced Omega II.

**ZenKinG** · 07-26-2013, 10:16 PM

not if surrender is involved and even without surrender, halves is in the top 3 with surrender for pitch and top 4 without surrender, with only "ace side counts" above it, which everyone knows people can't do it 100% accurately anyway, so it loses some of its edge right there (HO2sc, AO2sc) so yea i beg to differ as well.. Halves is best all around count out there.

**AussiePlayer** · 07-26-2013, 11:49 PM

Originally Posted by ZenKinG

not if surrender is involved and even without surrender, halves is in the top 3 with surrender for pitch and top 4 without surrender, with only "ace side counts" above it, which everyone knows people can't do it 100% accurately anyway, so it loses some of its edge right there (HO2sc, AO2sc) so yea i beg to differ as well.. Halves is best all around count out there.

I disagree with Flash and Tthree on many things, advocating simple level 1 counts; but Flash is right, HiOpt II has been proven to be the mathematically optimal count, not Halves.

**lurppis** · 07-26-2013, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by Tthree

I had to train my brain to do two things both counts simultaneously as separate was too slow. Cancelations in this multidimensional arithmetic make things much easier.

So basically you think of the cards' values as vectors, and you have taught yourself efficient ways of doing vector addition? That's a neat concept.

**ZenKinG** · 07-27-2013, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by AussiePlayer

I disagree with Flash and Tthree on many things, advocating simple level 1 counts; but Flash is right, HiOpt II has been proven to be the mathematically optimal count, not Halves.

I never said halves was the best at pitch i said OVERALL BEST COUNT for pitch and shoe.. I swear people dont know how to read on here