Deck Penetration

**johndaly47** · 07-12-2013, 01:34 PM

Had one other quick question as I am sure this is easy to answer. What is the normal deck penetration percentage at a casino blackjack table with a 6 deck shute? My guess would be, correct me if I'm thinking wrong or backwards, but generally it seems like roughly half to a full deck is left remaining once the cut card appears. So roughly 80% of the shute is being played. Thanks.

**DSchles** · 07-12-2013, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by johndaly47

Had one other quick question as I am sure this is easy to answer. What is the normal deck penetration percentage at a casino blackjack table with a 6 deck shute? My guess would be, correct me if I'm thinking wrong or backwards, but generally it seems like roughly half to a full deck is left remaining once the cut card appears. So roughly 80% of the shute is being played. Thanks.

OK, some basics: 1) The cards are dealt from a shoe, not a shute (which would be chute, in any case!). 2) Normal 6-card cut-card position is about 75%, or 4.5/6, although this varies widely. 3) If (in your dreams!) only half a deck out of 6 were cut away, that would be 91.7%. If 5/6 were dealt (one-deck cut) that would be 83.3%. For the 80% you mention, they would have to be cutting away 1.2 decks, which isn't exactly your "roughly half to a full deck."

Don

**DM21** · 07-12-2013, 02:12 PM

John,
It is good that you are trying to get away from your prior voodoo philosophy and gain knowledge on how to actually beat the game but you need to get a few books and do some studying. If you have settled on a particular count we can give you some good recommendations. You are asking some very basic questions here that could be cleared up very easily with a little research. Everyone here is extremely helpful but you are asking us to spoon feed you the information. I suggest that you read every post on this forum about the count that you are trying to learn because that will give you almost all of the info you need with a good book or two. Keep learning but take some initiative.

**BigJer** · 07-12-2013, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by DSchles

OK, some basics: 1) The cards are dealt from a shoe, not a shute (which would be chute, in any case!). 2) Normal 6-card cut-card position is about 75%, or 4.5/6, although this varies widely. 3) If (in your dreams!) only half a deck out of 6 were cut away, that would be 91.7%. If 5/6 were dealt (one-deck cut) that would be 83.3%. For the 80% you mention, they would have to be cutting away 1.2 decks, which isn't exactly your "roughly half to a full deck."

Don

Don. BTW, my local casino has a pen of 7 - 7.5D on an 8D shoe! Which is an 87.5% to 93.8%.

**Jabberwocky** · 07-12-2013, 03:09 PM

Lousy pen is the prime reason many APs only play promotions or shuffle track.

**Slacker13** · 07-12-2013, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by BigJer

Don. BTW, my local casino has a pen of 7 - 7.5D on an 8D shoe! Which is an 87.5% to 93.8%.

Sweet. I want to find that joint.

**BigJer** · 07-12-2013, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by Slacker13

Sweet. I want to find that joint.

You're on the wrong coast. ;-)

**Jabberwocky** · 07-12-2013, 03:45 PM

Stupid casino management shoots themselves in the foot by reducing the pen. The more hands per hour dealt, the more profits they make. Bill Zender proved it years ago.

**mofungoo** · 07-12-2013, 04:43 PM

Of the three casinos closest to me, one deals 4.5/6, another deals 5/6, and the third deals 5.25/6 and 7.25/8. I see a lot of 4.5/6 in other areas where I play.

**ZenMaster_Flash** · 07-12-2013, 06:43 PM

In general terms, the depth of penetration is inversely proportional to your longevity at said BJ game.

Meaning ... the better the penetration is, the more closely the games are monitored by surveillance.

**stopgambling** · 07-12-2013, 07:09 PM

I was living in dreamland for a while , then i was woke up by lousy pen!

I saw a few attempted at CC ,but would not have pass due to lack of prep. and basic knowledge. The casino are paranoid as most would fail and are not a real threat. i only made 20 or so max bets after over 200+ hrs of play.

**johndaly47** · 07-15-2013, 05:38 AM

Originally Posted by DM21

John,
It is good that you are trying to get away from your prior voodoo philosophy and gain knowledge on how to actually beat the game but you need to get a few books and do some studying. If you have settled on a particular count we can give you some good recommendations. You are asking some very basic questions here that could be cleared up very easily with a little research. Everyone here is extremely helpful but you are asking us to spoon feed you the information. I suggest that you read every post on this forum about the count that you are trying to learn because that will give you almost all of the info you need with a good book or two. Keep learning but take some initiative.

Thanks for the info and I'm really taking initiative I think as I've soaked up a lot in the last couple weeks, so far. Just wanted to go right to the guys, on this forum, who know the ins and outs of this game. That's all. Not looking to be spoon fed, but also want to understand the games that are out there the best way possible. Sorry for the what seem like dumb or baby questions. I didn't come out of the womb knowing how to count cards.