See the top rated post in this thread. Click here

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 13 of 28

Thread: True Count question for beginner

  1. #1


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

    True Count question for beginner

    Hey gang, hope everyone is doing well out there. Appreciate all the help a couple weeks back. I am reading more about BS, Hi-Lo, and also the True Count. Can someone give me a basic explanation of the True Count and how it is figured quickly? Perhaps I was reading a bit much yesterday as it just didn't sink into this melon of mine. Thanks for any insight on this.

  2. #2


    0 out of 5 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    If your attention span is that short you have no hope of making it as an AP.

  3. #3


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by 21gunsalute View Post
    If your attention span is that short you have no hope of making it as an AP.
    You may be right. Perhaps I should do this more in my spare time instead of during working hours. I am sure you had moments of information overload before you became a "Senior Member". Maybe not. I just want to be a part time player and really no more. Just trying to get as much useful info as I can, which was mentioned to me previously, that I needed to have a system to play by and not just by the seat of my pants.

  4. #4


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    My point is that the True Count is a very simple concept that you've already read up on apparently. What part of this simple concept do you not understand? Is it how to divide or how to estimate the remaining decks?

  5. #5


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    I re-read it again here this morning and yes, it does appear to be pretty simple. New to counting, new to putting forward the best BS I can as I have only played a couple times in the last dozen years. Thanks for the info. Just trying to soak in all I can.

  6. #6


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    For most counts, it is simply the "count per deck" as you divide your running count by the number of remaining decks. For example...a running count of +10 with 5 decks remaining would be a +2 true count, +9 running count with 3 decks remaining would be a +3 true count...etc. With HI-LO each TRUE count point is worth about .5 % advantage so in a game with a .5% house edge, the player would get the .5% edge at a +2 true count as the +2 TRUE count is worth one full percent but you must subtract the house edge. There are however counts that divide by half decks and by two decks intervals but it is the same concept, Hi-Lo true count is generally figured by the remaining decks to get the true "count per deck". A +5 count with several decks remaining is not near as favorable as a +5 count with one decks or less remaining. A plus count itself basically just tells you when there are more high cards than low cards remaining in the given pool of cards left to be dealt, a +10 count tells you that there is 10 extra high cards over the low cards. A negative count means there are more small cards than high ones remaining....The true count is just a more precise way to know your exact advantage over the house than the running count alone but there are systems that use the running count only and a running count system may be something to look into as the learning curve is not near as steep and I think most new counters probably have trouble with deck estimation and true count division more than anything. I do not know what books you have read but Norm has a fine book you can read for free. I know a whole lot of this stuff seems really difficult right now, but honestly it is all pretty basic stuff, that being said, if you have not mastered basic strategy, I personally would not even worry about any count until I had basic strategy down cold.

  7. #7


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by 8675309 View Post
    For most counts, it is simply the "count per deck" as you divide your running count by the number of remaining decks. For example...a running count of +10 with 5 decks remaining would be a +2 true count, +9 running count with 3 decks remaining would be a +3 true count...etc. With HI-LO each TRUE count point is worth about .5 % advantage so in a game with a .5% house edge, the player would get the .5% edge at a +2 true count as the +2 TRUE count is worth one full percent but you must subtract the house edge. There are however counts that divide by half decks and by two decks intervals but it is the same concept, Hi-Lo true count is generally figured by the remaining decks to get the true "count per deck". A +5 count with several decks remaining is not near as favorable as a +5 count with one decks or less remaining. A plus count itself basically just tells you when there are more high cards than low cards remaining in the given pool of cards left to be dealt, a +10 count tells you that there is 10 extra high cards over the low cards. A negative count means there are more small cards than high ones remaining....The true count is just a more precise way to know your exact advantage over the house than the running count alone but there are systems that use the running count only and a running count system may be something to look into as the learning curve is not near as steep and I think most new counters probably have trouble with deck estimation and true count division more than anything. I do not know what books you have read but Norm has a fine book you can read for free. I know a whole lot of this stuff seems really difficult right now, but honestly it is all pretty basic stuff, that being said, if you have not mastered basic strategy, I personally would not even worry about any count until I had basic strategy down cold.
    Thanks for the info and the explanation. I agree with your last sentence. I need to have that basic concept down of all the plays before I can move on with keeping a count.

  8. #8


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    In terms of development, I think of learning Basic Strategy as learning to Crawl, picking up the Running Count as Walking, and then computing the True Count as Running. After that, there are additional techniques that would be likened to Dancing.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    227


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Consider an unbalanced count, such as Red 7, described by Arnold Snyder in "Blackbelt in Blackjack", or KISS iii, described by Fred Renzey in "Blackjack Bluebook II." These are a couple of pretty smart fellas that swear by the effectiveness of the unbalanced count.

  10. #10


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    If gearing towards an unbalanced system, readup Norm's Modern Blackjack http://qfit.com/book/index.htm

  11. #11


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Shoofly View Post
    Consider an unbalanced count, such as Red 7, described by Arnold Snyder in "Blackbelt in Blackjack", or KISS iii, described by Fred Renzey in "Blackjack Bluebook II." These are a couple of pretty smart fellas that swear by the effectiveness of the unbalanced count.
    Thanks for the additional info. One thing I was reading about a bit ago was factoring in the Illustrious 18 when the True Count is known. Essentially, this flys in the face a bit from Basic Strategy correct? In cases where you might ordinarily hit, maybe on a borderline type of hand, using the Ill 18 you would then stand based on the TC. Just want to make sure I'm reading that right. Thanks.

  12. #12


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by johndaly47 View Post
    Hey gang, hope everyone is doing well out there. Appreciate all the help a couple weeks back. I am reading more about BS, Hi-Lo, and also the True Count. Can someone give me a basic explanation of the True Count and how it is figured quickly? Perhaps I was reading a bit much yesterday as it just didn't sink into this melon of mine. Thanks for any insight on this.
    True Count is simply the count per deck. For Hi-Lo the True Count is determined by dividing the numbers of decks remaining in play to the running count. In mathematical terms, if two decks has been played out of six decks. Then the remaining numbre of decks will be 4. If the running count is 11 you take 11/4. True count equals to 2 and 3/4. This is regular basic division.To figure out the True Count quickly you will need to practice.

  13. #13


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by johndaly47 View Post
    Thanks for the additional info. One thing I was reading about a bit ago was factoring in the Illustrious 18 when the True Count is known. Essentially, this flys in the face a bit from Basic Strategy correct? In cases where you might ordinarily hit, maybe on a borderline type of hand, using the Ill 18 you would then stand based on the TC. Just want to make sure I'm reading that right. Thanks.
    Besides using the True Count to size your bets, you'll use it to deviate from Basic Strategy when the TC reaches a critical value for your card total and the dealer's up card e.g. stand on 16 vs. T on TC >=O (for Hi-Lo) instead of always hitting per BS. That is why you have to know BS cold first, before worrying about counting, computing TC, remembering Indices, and the proper deviation. At first it sounds like a ton to do (and look like you're not counting). It is a lot, but with practice, you'll get there. The I18 is a subset of all the Indices which provide you a majority of the gain from playing variations and thus it reduces the amount you have to memorize.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Adam Johns: Optimal Departure True Count Question
    By Adam Johns in forum Blackjack Main
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-29-2012, 08:37 AM
  2. Norm Wattenberger: True Count Compression and True Edge
    By Norm Wattenberger in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 08-02-2005, 10:38 AM
  3. Dewayne: BJRM and true count question
    By Dewayne in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-24-2005, 08:24 PM
  4. New Guy: True Count Question
    By New Guy in forum Blackjack Beginners
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-13-2004, 02:49 PM
  5. jim: true count ko
    By jim in forum Blackjack Beginners
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-24-2003, 06:56 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

About Blackjack: The Forum

BJTF is an advantage player site based on the principles of comity. That is, civil and considerate behavior for the mutual benefit of all involved. The goal of advantage play is the legal extraction of funds from gaming establishments by gaining a mathematic advantage and developing the skills required to use that advantage. To maximize our success, it is important to understand that we are all on the same side. Personal conflicts simply get in the way of our goals.