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Thread: Backoff coming??

  1. #1


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    Backoff coming??

    So I was playing DD this weekend, pretty busy (4th of July weekend). The PBs were also busy and weren't paying attention so I started spreading $15 (table min) to $250 and was having a good run.

    The PBs still didn't care - I was looking at them at the corner of my eye. There were 2 of them and they were chatting away. Then a 3rd PB walks in, start of her shift looks like. I then started hearing her say "Didn't you see that he's got $2,200 in front of him??!..." I wasn't able to hear the rest of what she said. It was the end of the deck so I immediately colored up and walked to the cage.

    As I was waiting in line, the lady PB approached me with a clipboard. . I find it funny coz I was just reading the clipboard thread earlier that morning, lol. She talked to me pleasantly and said they weren't able to get my player's card. So I handed it to her, she wrote it down, said thank you, and left. I always play rated for comps. Maybe they didn't record it since I only bought in $200.

    Should I stay away from this store for a while or just from the lady PB's shift?

    Is there something I should have done differently?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Jabberwocky's Avatar
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    Depends. Pitch games are generally counter traps. But you have omitted some key variables from the equation. What kind of rules are you playing under? What is the depth of the deal?
    Finally, given the game is even beatable, what is the casino's choke point?

  3. #3


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    Quote Originally Posted by BJNewbee View Post
    So I was playing DD this weekend, pretty busy (4th of July weekend). The PBs were also busy and weren't paying attention so I started spreading $15 (table min) to $250 and was having a good run.

    The PBs still didn't care - I was looking at them at the corner of my eye. There were 2 of them and they were chatting away. Then a 3rd PB walks in, start of her shift looks like. I then started hearing her say "Didn't you see that he's got $2,200 in front of him??!..." I wasn't able to hear the rest of what she said. It was the end of the deck so I immediately colored up and walked to the cage.

    As I was waiting in line, the lady PB approached me with a clipboard. . I find it funny coz I was just reading the clipboard thread earlier that morning, lol. She talked to me pleasantly and said they weren't able to get my player's card. So I handed it to her, she wrote it down, said thank you, and left. I always play rated for comps. Maybe they didn't record it since I only bought in $200.

    Should I stay away from this store for a while or just from the lady PB's shift?

    Is there something I should have done differently?
    If this is a place you go to often, you should NEVER cash your chips after a play. If not, you should still show some discretion by not cashing your chips immediately. I leave it to you to think of some ideas.

    Also, try not to play when the shift change is happening. That is when the new PBs must find out who their bigger players are. In addition, because the PBs are changing, surveillance is typically told to be 'on the ball' for anything suspicious. Out of the backoffs I can remember, about 1/3 of them have happened only a few minutes after a shift change of the bosses.

    If you are not a full-time AP and this casino is valuable to you proximity-wise and value-wise, then you did the right thing in leaving at that time. Otherwise, I wouldn't have worried about it too much, especially on a busy weekend. I would try to avoid the lady for now if you can for a couple months.

  4. #4


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    After a spate of back-offs playing unrated I spent some time reviewing the moments prior to getting the tap. The one thing they had in common was the appearance of a new suit, someone who hadn't been in the pit during my session, who would talk to the pit person with their body and head angled toward my table. Sometimes it included gestures towards the table, and sometimes a phone pick up. Since then, the appearance of a new suit who looks like a senior manager, or an old timer, always sends my alarm off. If they start watching the table, then I get the message and live to play another day.

  5. #5


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwocky View Post
    Depends. Pitch games are generally counter traps. But you have omitted some key variables from the equation. What kind of rules are you playing under? What is the depth of the deal?
    Finally, given the game is even beatable, what is the casino's choke point?
    Standard rules. H17, DAS, split aces 2x 1 card. I don't often play here as pen is really bad. 1 to more than one. But this dealer was a doing just .75 so I played.

    What is a choke point?

  6. #6


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tthree View Post
    I have been in many situations that I thought spelled the end for me but I was always wrong.

    I was doing very well while playing unrated and a phone call came down causing the floor to look in my general direction. I hear him say my first name. I am sure I am about to get nabbed but remember I am playing unrated. It was nothing.

    I thought they had snapped my picture with a flash so I went back for one last big hit. I played a marathon spreading aggressively and of course I was losing. The best laid plans... Then I am almost back to even. The suits gather and I figure this is it. They offer me the sky. Comps galore and want to get me a reserved private table.

    I am playing and really on a tear. Then a suit sticks his head into the middle of the table and looks me in the face and says, "What is going on here?" It spooks me pretty good and this time I stop playing for the evening after the count tanks. It was the first day of a long weekend. I play unmolested the rest of the trip.

    You should know better than us how it felt. Maybe you weren't in the system and that was why she was saying didn't you notice... Then she came for your info. If they had you in the system she wouldn't need your info because she already knew who you were.

    We should be paranoid because they are out to get us but sometimes it gets the better of us.

    I try not to have that many chips in front of me though. There are lots of good reasons to color up and pocket big chips. Of course they know where those chips went but like they say out of sight out of mind. Besides plops seeing lots of chips is like a sirens call, "Come to me, this is a hot table". Lowlifes are looking for people with lots of money and the chip bimbos won't leave you alone. None of this is good for you and your game.
    LOL. I know, we sometimes are too paranoid and not realizing it's the other way around.

    I try not to have a lot of chips on the table too, but didn't want to get the attention of PB when coloring up. And i know i won't stay long. Should have just pocketed the greens. :-)

  7. #7


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    15-250 is a very big spread! For the game you just mention i guess that's what is necessary to gain anything worthwhile. Good luck as they say.since you do not play there often ,you should worry less.

  8. #8


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    Quote Originally Posted by Youk View Post
    If this is a place you go to often, you should NEVER cash your chips after a play. If not, you should still show some discretion by not cashing your chips immediately. I leave it to you to think of some ideas.

    Also, try not to play when the shift change is happening. That is when the new PBs must find out who their bigger players are. In addition, because the PBs are changing, surveillance is typically told to be 'on the ball' for anything suspicious. Out of the backoffs I can remember, about 1/3 of them have happened only a few minutes after a shift change of the bosses.

    If you are not a full-time AP and this casino is valuable to you proximity-wise and value-wise, then you did the right thing in leaving at that time. Otherwise, I wouldn't have worried about it too much, especially on a busy weekend. I would try to avoid the lady for now if you can for a couple months.
    No, I don't frequent this place. Terrible pen. I only play when I see dealers with ok pen.

    Thanks for the tips Youk.

  9. #9


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    Quote Originally Posted by Intermediate View Post
    After a spate of back-offs playing unrated I spent some time reviewing the moments prior to getting the tap. The one thing they had in common was the appearance of a new suit, someone who hadn't been in the pit during my session, who would talk to the pit person with their body and head angled toward my table. Sometimes it included gestures towards the table, and sometimes a phone pick up. Since then, the appearance of a new suit who looks like a senior manager, or an old timer, always sends my alarm off. If they start watching the table, then I get the message and live to play another day.
    I certainly don't want to experience a back off. I appreciate everyone on this board for sharing your experiences.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Jabberwocky's Avatar
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    Spreading 16-1 is not the correct way to play DD; especially if spreading to two hands. Playing like that is a serious flaw in your game because you will ALWAYS hit the radar screen. When you find a DD game with .75 pen don't do anything to cause them grimacing or hand wringing. With that kind of depth you don't require a monster spread to beat it. But if it's closer to 50%, don't play. Choke point refers to a casino's tolerance for the size of your win.
    Vincit Qui Patitur

  11. #11


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    Quote Originally Posted by stopgambling View Post
    15-250 is a very big spread! For the game you just mention i guess that's what is necessary to gain anything worthwhile. Good luck as they say.since you do not play there often ,you should worry less.
    Thanks stopgambling. I was told it's normally a $25 table. Maybe that's why they don't mind big bets.

    I find it hard to find pitch games with good rules and pen. If anyone knows of good ones in the south and do not mind sharing, pm me please.

  12. #12


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwocky View Post
    Spreading 16-1 is not the correct way to play DD; especially if spreading to two hands.
    I didn't spread to 2 hands.

    I don't think DD is beatable with just 1-4 spread. What do you recommend?

  13. #13
    Senior Member Jabberwocky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BJNewbee View Post
    I didn't spread to 2 hands.

    I don't think DD is beatable with just 1-4 spread. What do you recommend?
    You need to figure out how to induce better pen by the dealer. Then how to stay off the radar. I can't tell you that.
    Vincit Qui Patitur

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