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Thread: Penalty for standing on A7 vs. 9, 10 or A?

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    Penalty for standing on A7 vs. 9, 10 or A?

    What is the penalty for standing on A7 vs. 9, 10 or A at TC = 0 (Hi-Lo)?

    What is the penalty for standing on A7 vs. 9, 10 or A at TC = +1 (Hi-Lo)?

    What is the penalty for standing on A7 vs. 9, 10 or A at TC = +2 (Hi-Lo)?

    Where is the best source of info (book? CVData?) for these types of questions?

  2. #2


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    Quote Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
    What is the penalty for standing on A7 vs. 9, 10 or A at TC = 0 (Hi-Lo)?

    What is the penalty for standing on A7 vs. 9, 10 or A at TC = +1 (Hi-Lo)?

    What is the penalty for standing on A7 vs. 9, 10 or A at TC = +2 (Hi-Lo)?

    Where is the best source of info (book? CVData?) for these types of questions?
    Lancelot,

    You can generate these penalty values using CVData.

    You forgot to mention the number of decks in play, and whether the game is S17 or H17, both of which will affect the result.

    Dog Hand

  3. #3


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dog Hand View Post
    Lancelot,

    You can generate these penalty values using CVData.

    You forgot to mention the number of decks in play, and whether the game is S17 or H17, both of which will affect the result.

    Dog Hand

    Hello, Dog Hand.

    Can you walk me through how to gen these via CVData?

    btw, the most common games here are 6D, S17, DAS, DOA2, LS (NMSE) or NS, noRSA.

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    Precision may not be needed here. There is, perhaps, an unstated question.

    What you need to know is that you really want to hit your Soft 18 vs. the dealer's 9's and Tens.

    However, against the dealer's ACE, the penalty is trivial. Many of use that as a "cover play."

    The index for Standing with Soft 18 vs. Ace will always be +1 or +2 depending on your count.

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    Are you looking for Conditional Penalty (when the hand is in front of you) or Absolute Penalty (if you intend to ALWAYS play this hand incorrectly) ?
    BJA3, Chapter 7, pages 98-99
    G Man

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash View Post

    Precision may not be needed here. There is, perhaps, an unstated question.

    What you need to know is that you really want to hit your Soft 18 vs. the dealer's 9's and Tens.

    However, against the dealer's ACE, the penalty is trivial. Many of use that as a "cover play."

    The index for Standing with Soft 18 vs. Ace will always be +1 or +2 depending on your count.

    I guess THAT was my actual question. Thanks ZenMaster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by G Man View Post
    Are you looking for Conditional Penalty (when the hand is in front of you) or Absolute Penalty (if you intend to ALWAYS play this hand incorrectly) ?
    BJA3, Chapter 7, pages 98-99

    I'm thinking more like "Absolute Penalty" for cover. I will read BJA3. Thanks, G Man.

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    In short somewhere around 1 -2 % of your bet. Sacrafice play for longevity ? Yeah BJA3 should give you a great answer. Mr. Don S is here ,maybe he can answer you personally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stopgambling View Post
    In short somewhere around 1 -2 % of your bet. Sacrafice play for longevity ? Yeah BJA3 should give you a great answer. Mr. Don S is here ,maybe he can answer you personally.
    Thanks, SG.

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    Happy to answer, but the question is too vague. The penalties, both conditional and absolute, are right there in BJA3, as G Man says. But, if Lancelot wants to know what making the wrong play for each of these three hands will cost him personally, given the game he is playing and the bet spread he is employing, then he should sim that particular style with the "wrong" plays as well as the right ones, to see what the difference in e.v. turns out to be.

    Don

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    For an s17 game there is almost no penalty for standing on A7 vs Ace. For the others there is a good discussion in Ian Andersen's book. You can check the conditional penalties per $100 flat bet for standing on A7 vs ? in Don Schlesinger's book. This will give you a idea of the relative cost of some playing errors, but for your own unique betting strategy, to figure out the actual cost you need to run a few simulations, first a benchmark simulation with perfect strategy, then create the cover strategy you want to use and run another simulation and compare it to the benchmark. This is best done with a program like SBA or CV Data.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    Happy to answer, but the question is too vague. The penalties, both conditional and absolute, are right there in BJA3, as G Man says. But, if Lancelot wants to know what making the wrong play for each of these three hands will cost him personally, given the game he is playing and the bet spread he is employing, then he should sim that particular style with the "wrong" plays as well as the right ones, to see what the difference in e.v. turns out to be.

    Don
    Thanks, Don. The BJA books are very, very good.

  13. #13


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    Quote Originally Posted by bigplayer View Post
    For an s17 game there is almost no penalty for standing on A7 vs Ace. For the others there is a good discussion in Ian Andersen's book. You can check the conditional penalties per $100 flat bet for standing on A7 vs ? in Don Schlesinger's book. This will give you a idea of the relative cost of some playing errors, but for your own unique betting strategy, to figure out the actual cost you need to run a few simulations, first a benchmark simulation with perfect strategy, then create the cover strategy you want to use and run another simulation and compare it to the benchmark. This is best done with a program like SBA or CV Data.

    Thank you very much, bigplayer.

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