What did Bryce say at the end of the article? This doesn't prove it can't be beaten but proves it isOriginally Posted by FlightMedicNoMore
unbeatable. what is that!?
The article was more about disproving things I guess. Most importantly is that high speed filming has shown that both dice don't have the same energy in flight, so assumptions that they will peform in an equal way after hitting the rubber is just wrong. That's powerfully damning right there.
My 10 cents....
1 Casinos are as scared of dice APs as they are of progression system gamblers. Check the dark side forums and you'll find NO reference to this kind of advantage play. No Griffin book, no dice sharks working for the house observing shooters. Nothing. Dice have been around for a while, I suspect casinos would have got wind of any possible (workable) controlled throwing by now.
2 Cheating with dice in some circumstances is easy. Actually, really easy for anyone with enough magic skills to get a gig entertaining children. Cheating with dice probably started the day dice were invented, 1,000s of years ago.
If I was going to cheat at dice, and gained a reputation for being "lucky", I would come up with a nonsense story about how I practiced 10 hours a day for years, using a secret that I got from a Swarmi, yadda, yadda, yadda...
My bet is historic dice cheats created a myth of dice control that sensible men and women have wasted months/years trying to emulate. I'm not sure, but it's persuasive for me.
I also understand how a fellow could fool himself into believing he is controlling dice. It's such a wildly difficult thing to do that winning streaks (yes, streaks exist) are attributed to being "in the zone" and losing streaks are attributed to being "a little off" today. All superstition, faith and delusion works in about the same way.
Again, pure voodoo, but Stanford Wong rocks anyway. We are none of us perfect, I wager most of my money using Japanese Candlestick voodoo ^^
Last edited by Suwon Fish; 12-28-2011 at 07:55 AM.
Well we know he has a lot of expertise in blackjack so it doesn't affect my thoughts on him in that regard at all. According to the link RWM put up, doesn't it say he has since removed the dice control links in the green chip forum? It's been a little bit since I listened to it.
I was surprised when Wong came on the show. I expected him to be a big supporter of dice control, but he was not. He pretty much backed away from that position saying that he has now seen high-speed video of the dice landing and it appears that the thrower has no control. He didn't flat out say it was hogwash, but did say it was not the way to make money gambling.
I also want to point out that this is BIG business. Not for Wong, but for Scoblete and the Golden Touch people. They held a seminar a couple months ago where they had 69 students. The initial GT class is $1200 so you do the math. Not bad for a weekends work.
As Norm mentioned the craps page is back on BJ21 and Stanford has not backed off his assertion that it could be done only that it requires an inordinate amount of practice and he has not put the requisite time in since the publication of his book.
All bleeding stops eventually.
No thinking about it...it is pure voodoo. If it were possible there we would know of several dozen craps players who have become multi-millionaires or even billionaires shooting craps. Even a couple dozen skilled shooters would be enough to change the game of casino craps forever. Instead...you have had casinos go from 2x odds to 3-4-5x, 10x, or even offering 100x odds.
Now if you're talking short throws or dice sliding that is another question. If you're talking dice throws that meet the requirments of going the length of the table and at least one die hitting the back wall it absolutely cannot be done. The fact that these dice guys sell their techniques instead of making hundreds of millions of dollars using these techniques should tell you all you need to know. The best way to beat craps remains abusing the casino comp system via real or paper losses.
I will add that it was possible to beat some craps games in a "tub" configuration using legit throws...but then if they let you throw from 12 inches away from the wall it's the casino's own fault. I watched a guy destroy a Wendover casino on a half-table.
Last edited by bigplayer; 12-29-2011 at 01:23 PM.
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