See the top rated post in this thread. Click here

Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst ... 345
Results 53 to 65 of 65

Thread: Stanford Wong & Craps

  1. #53


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Baberuth View Post
    Is it legal to sell a course on a system that doesn't work? Isn't that what they do? Is it any different from selling fake goods? Just wait until they have enough graduates and the casinos get racked up. Oh yeah, the casinos give special promotions and room rates for the graduates.
    Yes it is. I know this because it is legal to sell rocks and tell people they are pets. I am
    curious now. Are there any BJ courses that are given at any casinos?

  2. #54


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by gamblingghost View Post
    Yes it is. I know this because it is legal to sell rocks and tell people they are pets. I am
    curious now. Are there any BJ courses that are given at any casinos?
    I was thinking the same thing. It would probably be a good idea on the part of the casinos. Imagine if Stanford Wong gave such a course and all the attendees immediately rushed out to the casino floor to try their new-found "skills."

  3. #55


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    There was a time back in the early 80s where the Treasury Casino had a seminar on card counting taught by Ken Uston. I never hear of casinos teaching BJ anymore, but Bob Dancer gets hired by casinos to teach VP.

  4. #56


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    I always thought the casino-provided roulette and baccarat note cards were a brilliant idea. Hold casino-sanctioned controlled-shooting dice courses, give out BS cards, and maybe even put up meters that show when a slot machine is due for a win! If ethics aren't an issue (and in casino marketing, they're usually not), then these are all fantastic money-generating ideas.

  5. #57


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Tthree View Post
    I remember a guy almost 30 years ago. He bellied up to the table stick left wearing a nice suit. He had a beautiful throw that hit within an inch of the wall and hardly bounced. He rolled hard number after hard number. He was setting the hardways all the way around the dice. He had a 3 step progression on them and played for about 30 minutes and won about 50K betting green to start the progression. It was an amazing thing to see.
    This is the key and no one EVER talks about it. Its why golden tough craps is bunk and why I have been backed off and generally get heat when I play

  6. #58
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    The mote in God's eye
    Posts
    12,470
    Blog Entries
    59


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    The last time I played Craps was, coincidentally, on this day, January 3rd, several years ago, just after midnight. And I had such a ridiculous run of luck, Hollywood Dave wrote about it in his book. I have not played one hand of Craps since. Why would I? I left a winner, and ain’t going to try a repeat an event of pure luck.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  7. #59


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

    Gtc is bunk, dice influence is real

    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    The last time I played Craps was, coincidentally, on this day, January 3rd, several years ago, just after midnight. And I had such a ridiculous run of luck, Hollywood Dave wrote about it in his book. I have not played one hand of Craps since. Why would I? I left a winner, and ain’t going to try a repeat an event of pure luck.
    the hard ways set and the gtc throw are both wrong. If I briefed you on the reasoning and gave you a demonstration you would probably reconsider. No amount of throws would be statistical proof, but knowing what to look for and just seeing it a few times would make you a believer.

    the house generally doesn't care about me and sees me as a shill unless except for the rare properties that are sharp enough to understand but consider my action to large.

    Why no one grinding craps for big money? mid sized casinos do back me off. Consider how many people are winning poker/bj players but always bust because they don't understand kelly criterion. Same happens with craps but worse. professional sports bettors and pool hustlers exist too, their just rare and not trying to blow up their spot. Same with craps.

  8. #60


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackriver View Post
    the hard ways set and the gtc throw are both wrong. If I briefed you on the reasoning and gave you a demonstration you would probably reconsider. No amount of throws would be statistical proof, but knowing what to look for and just seeing it a few times would make you a believer.

    the house generally doesn't care about me and sees me as a shill unless except for the rare properties that are sharp enough to understand but consider my action to large.

    Why no one grinding craps for big money? mid sized casinos do back me off. Consider how many people are winning poker/bj players but always bust because they don't understand kelly criterion. Same happens with craps but worse. professional sports bettors and pool hustlers exist too, their just rare and not trying to blow up their spot. Same with craps.
    Okay I will give you a simple test to prove you wrong, if you could throw the dice 300 times a day over a year period at your house (you can think of it as practice sessions), that is about 100K throw if done over a year. Record the data from every throw and then generate a distribution of the totals obtained, with 100000 throws the numbers should match to the third decimal. So for instance the profitability of getting a total of 2 is 1/36 or 0.0277777, with a 100K throw simulation of a random throw, the frequency you obtain for a total of 2 is 0.027... meaning it matches the theoretical frequency to the third decimal, if the frequency you get from your distribution is different on the third decimal then maybe we will start believing in dice control.

  9. #61
    Senior Member Aslan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Bethesda, MD / Las Vegas NV
    Posts
    2,808


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    The last time I played Craps was, coincidentally, on this day, January 3rd, several years ago, just after midnight. And I had such a ridiculous run of luck, Hollywood Dave wrote about it in his book. I have not played one hand of Craps since. Why would I? I left a winner, and ain’t going to try a repeat an event of pure luck.
    I heartily agree. I have placed exactly 5 bets at roulette in my entire life, and won them all for a total of $3,000. They were all the result of steaming behavior, in other words, stupid bets. Like you, my intention is to never again place a bet at roulette. My hope is we grow wiser with age.

    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 - 8/23/10... “Life’s most urgent question is: what are you doing for others?” — Martin Luther King, Jr.

  10. #62


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by iCountNTrack View Post
    Okay I will give you a simple test to prove you wrong, if you could throw the dice 300 times a day over a year period at your house (you can think of it as practice sessions), that is about 100K throw if done over a year. Record the data from every throw and then generate a distribution of the totals obtained, with 100000 throws the numbers should match to the third decimal. So for instance the profitability of getting a total of 2 is 1/36 or 0.0277777, with a 100K throw simulation of a random throw, the frequency you obtain for a total of 2 is 0.027... meaning it matches the theoretical frequency to the third decimal, if the frequency you get from your distribution is different on the third decimal then maybe we will start believing in dice control.
    2nice: "hey, there's a million dollars in your basement"
    Bjplayers: "prove it"
    2nice: "im just saying, if you get a chance go down and check it out. saw it thru the basement window while chasing my dog. How long till someone else gets it?"
    Bjplayers: "not until you prove it. burden is on you"
    2nice: "hey I don't care. I just have heard rumors other people know and might take it. I'm just trying to give you a heads up"
    bjplayers *slam door in face* "idiot, this is the second person I thought was trustworthy to tell me this bull****"

  11. #63


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackriver View Post
    2nice: "hey, there's a million dollars in your basement"
    Bjplayers: "prove it"
    2nice: "im just saying, if you get a chance go down and check it out. saw it thru the basement window while chasing my dog. How long till someone else gets it?"
    Bjplayers: "not until you prove it. burden is on you"
    2nice: "hey I don't care. I just have heard rumors other people know and might take it. I'm just trying to give you a heads up"
    bjplayers *slam door in face* "idiot, this is the second person I thought was trustworthy to tell me this bull****"

  12. #64
    Senior Member bigplayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    1,807


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Tthree View Post
    Any serious DC player keeps reams of records. Simply changing the probability of rolling a 7 doesn't give you an edge. There is another half to the decision of any bet. You must know how that half is affected by new probability distribution. Look at placing the 6. Normal distribution has 6 sevens and 5 sixes for the 36 roll cycle. That is 6/5 or 1.2 payout for beak even game. If you rolled 1 less 6 and 1 less 7 (SSR per 7.2 most would be proud of )36 rolls, that would need a payout of 5/4 or 1.25 for a break even game. They hurt their return on the favorite bet of the dice controller which pays 1.167. I have seen people great at not rolling a 7 but weight the 2. 3. 11 and 12. They can't understand why they don't make money with an SSR of over 9. Maybe it is because you are betting the pass and placing the 6 and 8. If you would hop bet the proposition bets and/or bet the field you would be making a fortune. I never worried much about my SSR. I worried about the ratios of the outcomes of my bets. The others at the table would be bragging about the 40 some rolls without a 7 but they were betting the 6 and 8 and only rolled them 4 times. My 20 something roll had 12 sixes and eights. DC is all about knowing you roll frequencies for both sides of whatever bet you make. Anything else is just hoping to get lucky. How do you know? RECORDS.

    Variance is a ***** for the DC artist. He might roll a couple 50s (50 rolls without sevening out) but if his SSR is 12 you know short rolls are needed to get to an SSR of 12. How you plan your attack betting is an important factor in your success. If you tend to have occasional monster rolls that hit your numbers many, many times balanced by many short rolls a progression may be your best choice. If you are fairly consistent at medium rolls flat betting may be best for you. Not many DCers consider this. The GT course teaches flat betting for the most part. The math guys out there know what I am talking about.
    If you just make passline bets and come bets with odds and your rolls are just a bit longer than normal your action would be automatically skewed towards the non-7 numbers (points) you are most likely to make. You could not make incorrect bet choices, the dice would select the numbers on which you have the action automatically.

  13. #65
    Senior Member Aslan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Bethesda, MD / Las Vegas NV
    Posts
    2,808


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Tthree View Post
    Any serious DC player keeps reams of records. Simply changing the probability of rolling a 7 doesn't give you an edge. There is another half to the decision of any bet. You must know how that half is affected by new probability distribution. Look at placing the 6. Normal distribution has 6 sevens and 5 sixes for the 36 roll cycle. That is 6/5 or 1.2 payout for beak even game. If you rolled 1 less 6 and 1 less 7 (SSR per 7.2 most would be proud of )36 rolls, that would need a payout of 5/4 or 1.25 for a break even game. They hurt their return on the favorite bet of the dice controller which pays 1.167. I have seen people great at not rolling a 7 but weight the 2. 3. 11 and 12. They can't understand why they don't make money with an SSR of over 9. Maybe it is because you are betting the pass and placing the 6 and 8. If you would hop bet the proposition bets and/or bet the field you would be making a fortune. I never worried much about my SSR. I worried about the ratios of the outcomes of my bets. The others at the table would be bragging about the 40 some rolls without a 7 but they were betting the 6 and 8 and only rolled them 4 times. My 20 something roll had 12 sixes and eights. DC is all about knowing you roll frequencies for both sides of whatever bet you make. Anything else is just hoping to get lucky. How do you know? RECORDS.

    Variance is a ***** for the DC artist. He might roll a couple 50s (50 rolls without sevening out) but if his SSR is 12 you know short rolls are needed to get to an SSR of 12. How you plan your attack betting is an important factor in your success. If you tend to have occasional monster rolls that hit your numbers many, many times balanced by many short rolls a progression may be your best choice. If you are fairly consistent at medium rolls flat betting may be best for you. Not many DCers consider this. The GT course teaches flat betting for the most part. The math guys out there know what I am talking about.
    As I recall, SW did keep records, but he admitted they were no where near sufficient to prove DC. All you say is sound theoretically. However, my guess is that many of these "runs" are either fictitious or a product of variance alone. Again, if I could control the dice, I'm sure it would look so pretty that I would be 86-ed in short order.

    I know a dice man who has won millions Vegas, but if he ever had DC, he sure is having trouble putting it together today. I think he was getting away with sliding the dice when he won millions, which is a proven method of DC, but hitting the pyramids in the air and still getting a non-random result-- well, you might just say I'm from Missouri.

    Dice men are gamblers and gamblers eventually have big hits. It's in there DNA. One gambler I know (I won't divulge his name) walked into a casino with a friend to consume a comped gourmet meal. He had $11,000 in his pocket. He said, "You want to see balls. Watch this!" He sauntered up to the Baccarat table, talked with the floor supervisor, then placed a bet for $10,000. He won that and 3 more, then went to the restaurant with $51,000 in his pocket. After the meal he said to his friend, "All I have is hundreds, could you leave a $20 tip?" "What the heck!" his friend said, "You just won $40,000 and you won't tip $100?!" lol His friend left a twenty. On the way out, he stopped by the Baccarat again and lost it all, including what he had brought. That's a gambler. They have the capacity to make large scores at the drop of a hat, and lose them just as fast. When shooters win big scores at dice, I always wonder how much they "invested" before their winning streak. But, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying DC is impossible, just that there is no proof to the best of my knowledge, and the obstacles to it being real seem awfully steep to me, unless of course, they let you get away with throws that don't bounce off the pyramids.
    Last edited by Aslan; 01-04-2012 at 04:59 PM.

    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 - 8/23/10... “Life’s most urgent question is: what are you doing for others?” — Martin Luther King, Jr.

Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst ... 345

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

About Blackjack: The Forum

BJTF is an advantage player site based on the principles of comity. That is, civil and considerate behavior for the mutual benefit of all involved. The goal of advantage play is the legal extraction of funds from gaming establishments by gaining a mathematic advantage and developing the skills required to use that advantage. To maximize our success, it is important to understand that we are all on the same side. Personal conflicts simply get in the way of our goals.