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Thread: Can player casino interaction be simulated on a computer?

  1. #14
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Even in the Twelfth Century, they knew that "Hwa is thet mei thet hors wettrien the him self nule drinken."


    Who can give water to the horse that will not drink of its own accord?
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  2. #15


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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    They have simulated the Big Bang. Is that far enough away.
    Isn't that the last stop on the 1 line?

  3. #16
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21forme View Post
    Isn't that the last stop on the 1 line?
    No, both ends, or all points inclusive depending on whether we are speaking Newtonian, Einsteinian or QM.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    They have simulated the Big Bang. Is that far enough away.
    Science is currently rethinking the Big Bang. It may survive the review but its time may also be numbered.

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    I just think that the reaction the casino has to you is and your reaction to that and their reaction to what your reaction is all about the human side of the equation. Computers don't make good substitutes for human behavior. You can tell the computer to do whatever you want BUT YOU CAN'T TELL THE PIT TO DO SO. It would be like saying you can sim my every movement and thought. If you honestly are so blindly believing computers can do that you are delusional. I am sure your heat simulator is quite useful to the rookies at getting better at dealing with heat faster but any veteran knows how dynamic the situation is in the trenches you aren't going to do the same thing all the time nor should that ever be your plan. Patterns is the pitfall and the snare. Being able to change on the fly and see how the pit reacts and reacting accordingly is not something that you can sim. You can try but there is to much of the human condition there like are you a pain in the butt to have in the casino or are you well liked by people on both sides of the table. Believe me if they think their day would be happier without you there their tolerance level plummets.

  6. #19
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    I have no idea why you think computers must always do the same thing. You sound like you are talking about computers built in the 50s.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  7. #20
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    You are missing the point. They can't simulate human interactions with any degree of reliability. Just like a random number generator. They can try to make them seem random but there is really a pattern that the computer must follow. If the reactions of the simulated people were random and not to follow a pattern matrix they wouldn't be realistic. Casino personnel are all different stores react different. Different individuals working in the store react different. You must read the situation. How is a computer going to simulate reading people? It can act like it is doing that but there is nobody there to read.

    You can program a computer to act like you are better at fooling the pit or reading the personnel with different levels of theoretical reaction but it is not realistic. You are reading nobody. The art is in the human interactions not the zeros and ones. If you don't understand I am going to stop wasting my breath. It would be like simulating hitting a fastball and then believing you have become a better hitter because you hit it like mad on the computer. Sure the computer can act like it is simming your ability to hit a fastball but is that realistic to what hitting a fastball is in real life. You have to interact with a real object that reacts to your actual actions. It is all about what your body does the timing of the snap of the wrist and the turning of the hips. This is analagous to reading pit personnel and reacting to them and reading their reaction. Sure a computer can act like it is doing this and maybe even seem realistic but what can it gather about how you are reading a person and the persons reaction to your countermeasure. There is nobody for you to read to begin with in the sim. It can tell you what the simulated person is doing but would you have read that? Would you have read even more?

  8. #21
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Well, everyone is welcome to their incorrect opinions.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  9. #22


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    All this from a guy who believes in dice control?

    I'd suggest this thread should be moved to voodoo, except that it's supposed to be about advantageplayer.com
    "One of these days in your travels, you are going to come across a guy with a nice brand new deck of cards, and this guy is going to offer to bet you that he can make the Jack of Spades jump out of the deck and squirt cider in your ear. But, son, do not take this bet, for if you do, as sure as you are standing there, you are going to end up with an ear full of cider."

  10. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    Even in the Twelfth Century, they knew that "Hwa is thet mei thet hors wettrien the him self nule drinken."
    Where is the umlaut?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AussiePlayer View Post
    All this from a guy who believes in dice control?

    I'd suggest this thread should be moved to voodoo, except that it's supposed to be about advantageplayer.com
    Dice control absolutely works if you control the dice.

  12. #25
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    You can't simulate reads. It is like the difference between online poker and live poker. Any poker player knows exactly what I mean. You are reading the pit and bluffing their tests etc. It is different than setting some parameters for the computer to follow. Maybe the fact that I know this and others believe a computer can simulate read peoples reactions is why I haven't been backed off but once in 35 years of playing Blackjack.
    Last edited by Three; 06-11-2013 at 04:49 PM.

  13. #26
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    I made a boatload of money over decades using dice control. I also knew when the advantage had faded in the casino and looked for better opportunities. With 3 decades of practice records that show a constant and unyielding ability to influence the dice the issue of whether or not it could be down is proven. The question is can anyone do it today without a standard landing surface and surfaces that were theoretically designed for more randomization of a throw. I decided there were too many non-static variables and went for a more certain and measurable advantage in the other game I had been winning money at.

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