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Thread: FLASH: queries re: questionable indices

  1. #1
    FLASH
    Guest

    FLASH: queries re: questionable indices

    Running Off two sets of Hi-Opt II indices with S.B.A. I expected to see differences between the two ~ both are for 2 deckers but one is a S17 NDAS game and the other is H17 DAS. Naturally the indices involving pair splitting and dealer's holdings of Ace or Six are radically different in spots; yet there are a few different departure index numbers that have me befuddled. Any feedback is very much appreciated.

    This one completely confuses me:
    8-8 vs. dealer TEN is listed as +4 for S17 and -6 for H17

    Ignoring the smallest indexed differences, I am wondering about the following:

    Soft 18 vs. dealer Ace is listed as 0 for S17 and NOT listed at all for H17
    Soft 18 vs. dealer 2 is listed as +3 for S17 and listed at +5 for H17
    Soft 15 vs. dealer 5 is listed as -4 for S17 and -6 for H 17


  2. #2
    Don Schlesinger
    Guest

    Don Schlesinger: Re: queries re: questionable indices

    > Running Off two sets of Hi-Opt II indices with S.B.A.
    > I expected to see differences between the two ~ both
    > are for 2 deckers but one is a S17 NDAS game and the
    > other is H17 DAS. Naturally the indices involving pair
    > splitting and dealer's holdings of Ace or Six are
    > radically different in spots; yet there are a few
    > different departure index numbers that have me
    > befuddled. Any feedback is very much appreciated.

    > This one completely confuses me:
    > 8-8 vs. dealer TEN is listed as +4 for S17 and -6 for
    > H17

    Obviously, S17, H17 doesn't enter into this at all. But, DAS, NDAS does. For Hi-Lo, the difference in indices is about 4, dividing by whole decks. Hi-Opt II tag values are about double those of Hi-Lo, so if you were to still divide by whole decks, rather than half decks, there could be such a big difference between the two.

    > Ignoring the smallest indexed differences, I am
    > wondering about the following:

    > Soft 18 vs. dealer Ace is listed as 0 for S17 and NOT
    > listed at all for H17

    That's correct. You always hit the latter.

    > Soft 18 vs. dealer 2 is listed as +3 for S17 and
    > listed at +5 for H17
    > Soft 15 vs. dealer 5 is listed as -4 for S17 and -6
    > for H 17

    All seem reasonable.

    Don

  3. #3
    FLASH
    Guest

    FLASH: curiouser and curiouser

    Re-running the indices in question has really gotten my attention:

    The most obvious error re: 8-8 is bizarre as it is clear that the index is a "+" number not a negative one.

    A-7 vs. Ace cannot be +17. That is just plain silly.

    2D S17 No DAS:

    88 vs 10 = -15
    A7 vs A = 0
    A7 vs 2 = +4
    A4 vs 5 = -6

    2D H17 DAS:

    88 vs 10 = always split
    A7 vs A = +17
    A7 vs 2 = +2
    A4 vs 5 = -6

  4. #4
    Don Schlesinger
    Guest

    Don Schlesinger: Re: curiouser and curiouser

    > Re-running the indices in question has really gotten
    > my attention:

    > The most obvious error re: 8-8 is bizarre as it is
    > clear that the index is a "+" number not a
    > negative one.

    > A-7 vs. Ace cannot be +17. That is just plain silly.

    That's not what you wrote the first time. Clearly, you're doing something wrong. Afraid I can't help you.

    > 2D S17 No DAS:

    > 88 vs 10 = -15

    Makes no sense.

    > A7 vs A = 0

    That seems correct.

    > A7 vs 2 = +4
    > A4 vs 5 = -6

    These are Hi-Opt II indices, so I can't pass judgment on all of them.

    > 2D H17 DAS:

    > 88 vs 10 = always split

    Clearly silly.

    > A7 vs A = +17

    You're doing something wrong. Why not write to Karel: [email protected]

    Don

  5. #5
    FLASH
    Guest

    FLASH: Re: curiouser and curiouser

    Thanx Don. I shall do so.

  6. #6
    FLASH
    Guest

    FLASH: Don ...

    You wrote above:

    "That's not what you wrote the first time. Afraid I can't help you"

    Don, the first line states that I have RE-RUN S B A

  7. #7
    Don Schlesinger
    Guest

    Don Schlesinger: Re: Don ...

    > You wrote above:

    > "That's not what you wrote the first time. Afraid
    > I can't help you"

    > Don, the first line states that I have RE-RUN S B A

    Yes, I realize that. My point is that the first number for that play made sense. Then, you reran it, and it made no snese at all; so my conclusion is that you must have done something wrong.

    Don

  8. #8
    Cacarulo
    Guest

    Cacarulo: Some answers

    > Running Off two sets of Hi-Opt II indices with S.B.A.
    > I expected to see differences between the two ~ both
    > are for 2 deckers but one is a S17 NDAS game and the
    > other is H17 DAS. Naturally the indices involving pair
    > splitting and dealer's holdings of Ace or Six are
    > radically different in spots; yet there are a few
    > different departure index numbers that have me
    > befuddled. Any feedback is very much appreciated.

    > This one completely confuses me:
    > 8-8 vs. dealer TEN is listed as +4 for S17 and -6 for
    > H17

    > Ignoring the smallest indexed differences, I am
    > wondering about the following:

    > Soft 18 vs. dealer Ace is listed as 0 for S17 and NOT
    > listed at all for H17
    > Soft 18 vs. dealer 2 is listed as +3 for S17 and
    > listed at +5 for H17
    > Soft 15 vs. dealer 5 is listed as -4 for S17 and -6
    > for H 17

    Are you running the full set of indices? I'm asking this because it's incorrect to calculate an isolate index. for instance, you can't get an index for 14vT without calculating first 16vT and 15vT. Be careful with this.

    For a "quick and dirty" response I calculated some algebraic indices that should give you an adequate estimate of what you should get.

    2D,S17,NDAS (full-deck indices)
    -----------
    8,8 vs T = +8.1 (standing over splitting)
    A,7 vs A = +0.1 (standing over hitting)
    A,7 vs 2 = +0.7 (doubling over standing)
    A,4 vs 5 = -8.4 (doubling over hitting)

    2D,H17,DAS (full-deck indices)
    ----------
    8,8 vs T = +13 (standing over splitting)
    A,7 vs A = Always Hit (standing over hitting)
    A,7 vs 2 = 0 (doubling over standing)
    A,4 vs 5 = -8.5 (doubling over hitting)

    Hope this helps.

    Sincerely,
    Cac

  9. #9
    FLASH
    Guest

    FLASH: An afterthought

    Much thanx to everyone for their responses. Very much appreciated.

    I have carefully revisited the (addended) Infinite Deck Effects of Removal Charts in the final edition of "Theory of Blacklack"

    If I am uncertain about the correctness of a particular index, I can work out a reasonable approximation for myself utilizing these charts.

  10. #10
    Cacarulo
    Guest

    Cacarulo: Re: An afterthought

    > Much thanx to everyone for their responses. Very much
    > appreciated.

    > I have carefully revisited the (addended) Infinite
    > Deck Effects of Removal Charts in the final edition of
    > "Theory of Blacklack"

    I think you should check the BJA3 EORs which are far better than the ones in TOB. BTW, I didn't use EORs in my index calculation.

    > If I am uncertain about the correctness of a
    > particular index, I can work out a reasonable
    > approximation for myself utilizing these charts.

    You can do that but it's better to know why you're getting the wrong indices with SBA. It shouldn't happen unless you are doing something wrong. Which version are you using?

    Sincerely,
    Cac

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