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Thread: Artguy: When do you leave DD for 6D

  1. #1
    Artguy
    Guest

    Artguy: When do you leave DD for 6D

    On a recent trip through Mississippi casinos from Tunica to Biloxi I was very disappointed by the pen in most of the DD games which, notwithstanding, gave low advantage to the house. It got me wondering if there is a way to figure out when it is advantageous to leave DD for 6D play.

    For example, I came across DD in Tunica, Vicksburg and Gulfport which gave .2% advantage to the house but had pen of only 50-60%. Add to this a full table and I couldn't get many rounds in. So is it worth it to play this game with two others , one other, headsup?

    In hindsight, I think it would have been better to move on to a well cut 6D where I would have had a chance to ramp up even with a full table.In all the instances above, there were great 6d games available with P75%+. What does the math say about playing 6D over DD when the pen is low for DD?

  2. #2
    John Auston
    Guest

    John Auston: Re: When do you leave DD for 6D


    > What does the math say about playing
    > 6D over DD when the pen is low for DD?

    Never mind the math. You can easily find out what you want to know with BJRM 2002. In less than 30 seconds, I analyzed an H17DAS double deck game that offered only 50% penetration, versus an S17DAS 4.5 of 6 shoe game. The horrible penetration double deck game was still more profitable, by a rounded SCORE of 23 to 20. But if you can get LS added to that 6 deck game, or if you can get another 1/2 deck of penetration on the S17DAS, it will jump to a SCORE of about 32.

    There is also a section of BJRM that will help you estimate the hands per hour you will get in, given the shoe game table conditions you mentioned. For example, a full table of players at that 4.5 of 6 game will yield about 60 hands per clock hour. With only 4 total players, this rises to 90-95 hands per hour.

    - John Auston




  3. #3
    Don Schlesinger
    Guest

    Don Schlesinger: Re: When do you leave DD for 6D

    > What does the math say about playing
    > 6D over DD when the pen is low for DD?

    Be more precise. Tell us the exact rules, conditions, bet spread, and number of players at each game. Tell us the count system you use.

    Don't leave any detail out.

    Don

  4. #4
    Artguy
    Guest

    Artguy: Re: When do you leave DD for 6D

    Don,

    Just returned from my Mississippi tour and will reconstruct a typical situation in a Biloxi Casino. First of all, I play HiLo with a 1-12 spread. The DD game was s17 Da2 Das sp3 spA3 ns Hs with P60 (-.114). The 6d game had similar terms with a rating of -.329 but had P75.

    The DD tables seemed to attract the most action despite the grave shift. I was generally playing with 2 or 3 players but left when a fourth spot was played and moved over to 6d for a quick session and then out the door as the casino filled up. One other condition which irritated me throughout Mississippi was when dealer changes were made, the deck was redealt ending many promising positive hands. It felt almost like pref. shuffling; although the new dealers didn't seem aware of what they were wrecking.

    When I made my switch to 6d there was only one other player and play moved along quite swiftly although I still did no better than break even.

    So, again, the question is when is it mathamatically sound to move to 6d from a badly cut and over crowded DD?

  5. #5
    Don Schlesinger
    Guest

    Don Schlesinger: Re: When do you leave DD for 6D

    > So, again, the question is when is it
    > mathamatically sound to move to 6d from a
    > badly cut and over crowded DD?

    I'll try to answer, but if I understand correctly, you're spreading 1-12 on the DD game as well as on the 6-deck game? That's almost certain to make the 2-deck game the better of the two. But, if there are a total of four players at the DD game (plus the dealer = five hands), whereas there are only two playing the 6-deck game (three hands), that means about 2/3 more hands per hour at the shoe game. So, 90 hands at DD becomes 150 at the shoe.

    Regardless, a quick run-through with BJRM confirms that you are MUCH better off at the DD game. 1-12 at DD is a force to be reckoned with. I'm surprised you get away with it.

    Don

  6. #6
    Artguy
    Guest

    Artguy: Re: When do you leave DD for 6D

    > Regardless, a quick run-through with BJRM
    > confirms that you are MUCH better off at the
    > DD game. 1-12 at DD is a force to be
    > reckoned with. I'm surprised you get away
    > with it.

    I was never able to play 12 units due to lack of Pen; although I did reach two hands of 4 each several times. I played most of my hands at 1-4 and played two hands on occasion (1-4 inclusive). I played a total of 24 hours DD and 9 hours of 6D and had only a slightly better return for the DD play.

    I intuit that I have to play more hands which means going to two spots whenever possible. I am thinking of doing this when the count doesn't justify ramping up but the two bets don't exceed 150%. This would really push my game a lot and undoubtedly increase both EV and SD. Is this the way you attack a "short" game?

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