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  1. #1
    BJC
    Guest

    BJC: CVCX - shoe content

    Don,
    Norm,

    I am staying with the Ace side count issue longer then our prior correspondence to investigate further. Would you let me know if the following findings are accurate.

    Continuing to investigate the world of CVCX:

    CVCX modified shoe contents

    When setting up a sim with 6 decks and then use the modified shoe content to change the deck composition, does it use the composition as if that is the portion left in the shoe?

    For example, if we set up the cards as:
    (A)16-(2)22-(3)20-(4)21-(5)20-(6)21-(7)22-(8)20-(9)18-(T)84

    which would represent 48 cards (approx 1d) played.

    My reason is this.
    I ran numerous sims modifying the counts randomly with the intention to see how the aces and tens change the results.

    I found that if you set it up like this:
    A20-22-20-19-20-21-22-19-18-T83, the score is close to the same results as using a normal shoe using the rules I had set up. (37.66)

    When you set it up like this:
    A22-20-19-20-19-20-19-20-19-T80 or
    A24-20-19-20-19-20-19-20-19-T78

    the high aces and lower ten counts more then doubled the SCORE (81.57 & 81.23)

    The example above with the lower A (16) and higher T(84) came in with a SCORE of only 5.05.

    I realize the card count are not the same in each example. The disparity of the SCORE IMO is very interesting.

    BJC

    Note:This message was deleted from the main forum and moved here.

  2. #2
    Norm Wattenberger
    Guest

    Norm Wattenberger: Re: CVCX - shoe content

    Sorry for the delay. If you have six decks, and remove three, the TC assumes there are three decks remaining at the start of the shoe. That is, the modification to the shoe is taken into account.

    > Don,
    > Norm,

    > I am staying with the Ace side count issue longer then
    > our prior correspondence to investigate further. Would
    > you let me know if the following findings are
    > accurate.

    > Continuing to investigate the world of CVCX:

    > CVCX modified shoe contents

    > When setting up a sim with 6 decks and then use the
    > modified shoe content to change the deck composition,
    > does it use the composition as if that is the portion
    > left in the shoe?

    > For example, if we set up the cards as:
    >
    > (A)16-(2)22-(3)20-(4)21-(5)20-(6)21-(7)22-(8)20-(9)18-(T)84

    > which would represent 48 cards (approx 1d) played.

    > My reason is this.
    > I ran numerous sims modifying the counts randomly with
    > the intention to see how the aces and tens change the
    > results.

    > I found that if you set it up like this:
    > A20-22-20-19-20-21-22-19-18-T83, the score is close to
    > the same results as using a normal shoe using the
    > rules I had set up. (37.66)

    > When you set it up like this:
    > A22-20-19-20-19-20-19-20-19-T80 or
    > A24-20-19-20-19-20-19-20-19-T78

    > the high aces and lower ten counts more then doubled
    > the SCORE (81.57 & 81.23)

    > The example above with the lower A (16) and higher
    > T(84) came in with a SCORE of only 5.05.

    > I realize the card count are not the same in each
    > example. The disparity of the SCORE IMO is very
    > interesting.

    > BJC

    > Note:This message was deleted from the main forum and
    > moved here.

  3. #3
    BJC
    Guest

    BJC: Re: CVCX - shoe content

    > Sorry for the delay. If you have six decks, and remove
    > three, the TC assumes there are three decks remaining
    > at the start of the shoe. That is, the modification to
    > the shoe is taken into account.

    Norm, Thanks for the reply.

    After reviewing my post I see that my examples are not balanced, one is TC=-0.08 (SCORE=5) and the other is TC=0.09 (SCORE=85)(seems unusally high)

    My next step is to set it up correctly and balance the count out to exactly zero so I can compare the difference in SCORE when the make up of the shoe is high in tens and low in aces vs high in aces and low in tens.

    Then try a few sims where the make up of the low cards vary but still have a zero TC.

    My reasons for dwelling into this is to see if the Ace side count really is a useless tool in shoe games with balanced counts.

    Any predictions to what I may find?

    BJC

  4. #4
    Norm Wattenberger
    Guest

    Norm Wattenberger: Re: CVCX - shoe content

    I wouldn't expect much gain. But I've been wrong before.

    > Norm, Thanks for the reply.

    > After reviewing my post I see that my examples are not
    > balanced, one is TC=-0.08 (SCORE=5) and the other is
    > TC=0.09 (SCORE=85)(seems unusally high)

    > My next step is to set it up correctly and balance the
    > count out to exactly zero so I can compare the
    > difference in SCORE when the make up of the shoe is
    > high in tens and low in aces vs high in aces and low
    > in tens.

    > Then try a few sims where the make up of the low cards
    > vary but still have a zero TC.

    > My reasons for dwelling into this is to see if the Ace
    > side count really is a useless tool in shoe games with
    > balanced counts.

    > Any predictions to what I may find?

    > BJC

  5. #5
    Don Schlesinger
    Guest

    Don Schlesinger: Re: CVCX - shoe content

    > My reasons for dwelling into this is to see if the Ace
    > side count really is a useless tool in shoe games with
    > balanced counts.

    > Any predictions to what I may find?

    Yes: The Ace side count really is a useless tool in shoe games with balanced counts. :-)

    Don


  6. #6
    BJC
    Guest

    BJC: shoe content preliminary results

    Here are some of the preliminary results I have received using CVCX. The breakdown is using a straight cut across all cards, but I will work on varying breaks across all card values as time is available.
    Strat: RPC RA indices (no -7 or lower or +9 or greater)
    6d, LS, S17, 4.5/6 pen, 200 million hands.

    The Control Sim with a 4.5/6d pen resulted in:
    TBA= 1.076 SCORE= 49.00

    Modified shoe contents1 deck removed)
    First run
    Aces(24)-2(20)-3(20)-4(20)-(20)-(20)-(20)-(20)-(20)-T(76)

    TBA= 1.030 SCORE= 44.75

    Second Run
    Aces(18)-2(20)-3(20)-4(20)-(20)-(20)-(20)-(20)-(20)-T(82)

    TBA= 1.152 SCORE= 56.69

    Third Run
    Aces(16)-2(20)-3(20)-4(20)-(20)-(20)-(20)-(20)-(20)-T(84)

    TBA=1.129 SCORE= 54.72

    Modified Shoe Content: (2 Decks Removed)
    First Run:
    Aces(24)-2(16)-3(16)-4(16)-(16)-(16)-(16)-(16)-(16)-T(56)
    TBA=0.669 SCORE= 18.84

    Second Run:
    Aces(16)-2(16)-3(16)-4(16)-(16)-(16)-(16)-(16)-(16)-T(64)
    TBA= 1.109 SCORE= 52.53

    Third Run:
    Aces(12)-2(16)-3(16)-4(16)-(16)-(16)-(16)-(16)-(16)-T(68)
    TBA= 1.124 SCORE= 54.59

    The results are indicating that the higher the Ace count with a lower tens count the Lower the SCORE, while the opposite is true, the lower the Ace count and higher the Ten count the Higher the SCORE.

    Although the shoe content in real play will never be so balanced in card counts across the board this is a start. I'll post the results of varied card counts at a later time unless someone objects.
    Thanks
    BJC


  7. #7
    BJC
    Guest

    BJC: shoe content - Final SIms

    Here is the complete list of Sims I ran modifying the shoe contents to see how the change in card counts affect the SCORE and to see if an Ace Side Count would offer any advantage . In every Sim run similar results were achieved. If there was too large a proportion of Aces to Tens, then the SCORE was substantially lower than the control Sim. When the Ace count fell in too large a proportion to the Tens, the SCORE fell but not as dramatically as the latter.
    An Ace Side Count may be useful during the first 1-2 decks played of a shoe game if the SCORE is so dramatically affected. I would appreciate some input from the members.
    Thanks
    BJC

    RPC RA (there are no indices <-7 or >9
    All card counts are formatted as: A(Ace)-(2)-(3)-?. T(tens)
    CONTROL SIM results: 4.5/6D pen TBA=1.076 SCORE=49.00

    One deck played:
    A24-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-T76 TBA=1.030 SCORE=44.75
    A20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-T80 TBA=1.117 SCORE=53.08
    A18-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-T82 TBA=1.152 SCORE=56.69
    A16-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-T84 TBA=1.129 SCORE=54.72
    A12-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-T88 TBA=1.065 SCORE=49.21
    A8-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-T92 TBA=0.943 SCORE=39.12

    TWO decks played:
    A24-16-16-16-16-16-16-16-16-T56 TBA=0.669 SCORE=18.84
    A16-16-16-16-16-16-16-16-16-T64 TBA=1.109 SCORE=52.53
    A12-16-16-16-16-16-16-16-16-T68 TBA=1.124 SCORE=54.59
    A8-16-16-16-16-16-16-16-16-T72 TBA=1.007 SCORE=44.45

    A24-15-14-12-20-18-17-14-18-T56 TBA=0.611 SCORE=15.78
    A16-15-14-12-20-18-17-14-18-T64 TBA=1.057 SCORE=48.00
    A12-15-14-12-20-18-17-14-18-T68 TBA=1.076 SCORE=50.34

    A24-18-18-17-15-14-14-18-14-T56 TBA=0.625 SCORE=16.35
    A20-18-18-17-15-14-14-18-14-T60 TBA=0.905 SCORE=34.42
    A16-18-18-17-15-14-14-18-14-T64 TBA=1.058 SCORE=47.45
    A12-18-18-17-15-14-14-18-14-T68 TBA=1.080 SCORE=50.00
    A10-18-18-17-15-14-14-18-14-T70 TBA=1.019 SCORE=44.86

    A24-20-20-19-13-12-12-19-13-T56 TBA=0.618 SCORE=15.86
    A20-20-20-19-13-12-12-19-13-T60 TBA=0.915 SCORE=34.98
    A16-20-20-19-13-12-12-19-13-T64 TBA=1.077 SCORE=48.82
    A12-20-20-19-13-12-12-19-13-T68 TBA=1.094 SCORE=50.92
    A10-20-20-19-13-12-12-19-13-T70 TBA=1.051 SCORE=47.38

    Three Decks Played:
    A24-12-12-12-12-12-12-12-12-T36 TBA=(-.415) SCORE=(-7.22)
    A16-12-12-12-12-12-12-12-12-T44 TBA=0.833 SCORE=29.42
    A12-12-12-12-12-12-12-12-12-T48 TBA=1.051 SCORE=47.35
    A8-12-12-12-12-12-12-12-12-T52 TBA=1.030 SCORE=46.22

    I'm happy to see it formatted ok.

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