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Thread: AllStar: Frequency of visits

  1. #14
    pm
    Guest

    pm: Re: Bottom line

    > More or less, yes. Sounds like fun, huh?!

    Lol! Good lord, what a hassle. I really wish I wasn't such a slacker; I probably could have been doing something a lot more lucrative right now. I wish I had gotten into stocks.

    > Because part of the "heavy cover" is keeping
    > the sessions short. Most pit bosses have the IQ of an
    > earthworm, but if you give someone enough time to
    > watch your play, eventually, bells and whistles start
    > to go off.

    So is there literally no way around forfeiting hours of play? If you only had around 12, 13 casinos to choose from that had good, playable games, and you played 1/2 hour sessions, and you didn't want to set foot in the same casino more than once every three weeks, how would you get more than 10 hours of play in a month?

    One more question if I could bug you real quick. Cardkountr mentioned that if you play everywhere under the same name, a pit critter could see if you've amassed a decent lifetime win throughout multiple casinos. Even if you play under different names, wouldn't it be a problem if somebody at a particular joint took a look at your record and saw that you were an overall winner? Is rat-holing the only way around this?

    Thanks.

    pm

  2. #15
    Don Schlesinger
    Guest

    Don Schlesinger: Re: Bottom line

    > Lol! Good lord, what a hassle. I really wish I wasn't
    > such a slacker; I probably could have been doing
    > something a lot more lucrative right now. I wish I had
    > gotten into stocks.

    Not such a cakewalk these days, either.

    > So is there literally no way around forfeiting hours
    > of play? If you only had around 12, 13 casinos to
    > choose from that had good, playable games, and you
    > played 1/2 hour sessions, and you didn't want to set
    > foot in the same casino more than once every three
    > weeks, how would you get more than 10 hours of play in
    > a month?

    Some people consider the three shifts of the casinos as being three different playing "venues." This used to be valid thinking, as, unbelievably, there was little communication among the shifts, almost as if they were rivals, instead of all working for the same casino. Nowadays, I think that's less true than it used to be, but it is still somewhat better to come back to a casino on a different shift than it is to return to the same place and also at the same time.

    > One more question if I could bug you real quick.
    > Cardkountr mentioned that if you play everywhere under
    > the same name, a pit critter could see if you've
    > amassed a decent lifetime win throughout multiple
    > casinos.

    True.

    > Even if you play under different names,
    > wouldn't it be a problem if somebody at a particular
    > joint took a look at your record and saw that you were
    > an overall winner? Is rat-holing the only way around
    > this?

    Yes, sure, but much less so than if he aggregated your wins across all different casinos. And, because of fluctuations, you might be a loser in one casino for quite a while. The idea is to simply hide as much as possible from the prying eyes of management.

    Don

  3. #16
    Bettie
    Guest

    Bettie: A quick search of this site


    and you'll learn that people have had some pretty bad experiences with ordering ID via the 'net. You'll also see that I always suggest "ID by Mail," which is really a catalog of the dozens of different places where you can get hundreds of different types of IDs.

    Bettie



  4. #17
    Parker
    Guest

    Parker: Re: Bottom line

    > Lol! Good lord, what a hassle. I really wish I wasn't
    > such a slacker; I probably could have been doing
    > something a lot more lucrative right now. I wish I had
    > gotten into stocks.

    I have often said that there is a sort of "catch-22" inherent in serious card counting, to wit: If a player has amassed the sort of bankroll needed for serious play, then he/she has almost certainly found an easier way to make money.

    > So is there literally no way around forfeiting hours
    > of play? If you only had around 12, 13 casinos to
    > choose from that had good, playable games, and you
    > played 1/2 hour sessions, and you didn't want to set
    > foot in the same casino more than once every three
    > weeks, how would you get more than 10 hours of play in
    > a month?

    Hint: Southwest Airlines has frequent flights to Las Vegas from nearly everywhere. Anyone wanting to accumulate serious hours these days must be willing to make the occasional road trip.

    Another thought to ponder: At a few casinos, I am "tolerated." They know I'm a counter but I am allowed to play. Why? Because I go out of my way to be friendly to eveyrone, toke dealers occasionally, avoid plays that annoy other players (such as splitting 10's), use a conservative spread, and end my session if I experience a modest win. It also helps that my green/low black spread is not big enough to be a threat to their bottom line.

    Of course, I sacrifice quite a bit of EV by playing in this manner. If your primary goal is to maximize EV, you may be better off with the hit and run approach.

    Also, there are no guarantees. On a few occasions I have suddenly found that I was no longer "tolerated" after a change in management/ownership.

    > One more question if I could bug you real quick.
    > Cardkountr mentioned that if you play everywhere under
    > the same name, a pit critter could see if you've
    > amassed a decent lifetime win throughout multiple
    > casinos. Even if you play under different names,
    > wouldn't it be a problem if somebody at a particular
    > joint took a look at your record and saw that you were
    > an overall winner? Is rat-holing the only way around
    > this?

    Cumulative win will indeed eventually get you. I use this to console myself when I'm getting my butt kicked: "Well, at least I won't have to worry about cum win at this joint for a long, long time."

    It helps.

    A little.

  5. #18
    All Star
    Guest

    All Star: Re: A quick search of this site *NM*


  6. #19
    Hollywood
    Guest

    Hollywood: Re: Bottom line

    > I have often said that there is a sort of
    > "catch-22" inherent in serious card
    > counting, to wit: If a player has amassed the sort of
    > bankroll needed for serious play, then he/she has
    > almost certainly found an easier way to make money.

    > Hint: Southwest Airlines has frequent flights to Las
    > Vegas from nearly everywhere. Anyone wanting to
    > accumulate serious hours these days must be willing to
    > make the occasional road trip.

    > Another thought to ponder: At a few casinos, I am
    > "tolerated." They know I'm a counter but I
    > am allowed to play. Why? Because I go out of my way to
    > be friendly to eveyrone, toke dealers occasionally,
    > avoid plays that annoy other players (such as
    > splitting 10's), use a conservative spread, and end my
    > session if I experience a modest win. It also helps
    > that my green/low black spread is not big enough to be
    > a threat to their bottom line.

    > Of course, I sacrifice quite a bit of EV by playing in
    > this manner. If your primary goal is to maximize EV,
    > you may be better off with the hit and run approach.

    > Also, there are no guarantees. On a few occasions I
    > have suddenly found that I was no longer
    > "tolerated" after a change in
    > management/ownership.

    > Cumulative win will indeed eventually get you. I use
    > this to console myself when I'm getting my butt
    > kicked: "Well, at least I won't have to worry
    > about cum win at this joint for a long, long
    > time."

    > It helps.

    > A little.

    That was interesting what Parker said, because I am so exceptionally nice to pit people, dealers, always giving generous tips, actually I would not be braging if I said, people have actually told me how bad they felt while they were THROWING ME THE F K OUT, but I can honestly say, I have NEVER had anyone allow me to play once I was identified unless they took the 6 decks and cut out 4 and let me play against 2, in which they said. "knock yourself out".


    Hollywood

  7. #20
    All Star
    Guest

    All Star: Re: Bottom line

    > What about this approach? Play twice on a shift in target house then skip a day on that shift. Come back the day after. With a typical stay being 3-5 days, doesn't that look like a tourist (loser?)?

  8. #21
    Parker
    Guest

    Parker: An important difference

    > That was interesting what Parker said, because I am so
    > exceptionally nice to pit people, dealers, always
    > giving generous tips, actually I would not be braging
    > if I said, people have actually told me how bad they
    > felt while they were THROWING ME THE F K OUT, but I
    > can honestly say, I have NEVER had anyone allow me to
    > play once I was identified unless they took the 6
    > decks and cut out 4 and let me play against 2, in
    > which they said. "knock yourself out".

    Perhaps the reason for this is that you play at considerably higher stakes than I do. In order to be "tolerated" you have to pose no significant threat to the casino's bottom line.

  9. #22
    Hollywood
    Guest

    Hollywood: Re: An important difference

    > Perhaps the reason for this is that you play at
    > considerably higher stakes than I do. In order to be
    > "tolerated" you have to pose no significant
    > threat to the casino's bottom line.

    That could very well be true. They never cut me slack. They usually are nice, but the bottom line is always.
    "sorry, you have to leave"

    Hollywood

  10. #23
    All Star
    Guest

    All Star: Safe intermission?

    Still ... what's a safe policy of pacing my visits to the same casinos over a 3 to 4 month period? Have my favorites but shy about wearing out the welcome!

  11. #24
    bjplayer
    Guest

    bjplayer: Re: Frequency of visits

    Question about blackchip play? If the casinos have racks with blackchips, and 500 and 1000 chips to offer, why then, is it such a big deal for someone to use them to play? why is there so much scrutiny if someone is betting at least $100 a hand, if they are welcoming you to use black chips to play? i dont' understand this?

    > I visit 4 to 6 times a year and don't have any issues.

    > What you didn't say was will you be playing under your
    > own name? Are you expecting comps?

    > If you are playing under your own name and expecting
    > comps, you need to go easy on your "home" or
    > they will get upset with you. My advice, use them just
    > for a room and play just enough to get that. No need
    > to stalk the place just to get an RFB comp when you
    > can get food elsewhere. Seek food comps at your other
    > casinos based upon your black chip play. I have yet to
    > be turned down after a decent session (45 minutes+) of
    > black chip play to the buffet or a coffee shop. Le
    > Circ it is not, but food is food and it was FREE! And
    > when a session is only 10 to 15 minutes long, it
    > either means I lost very quickly (which will still get
    > you a comp), or I won very quickly which means it is
    > time to move on before suspicion sets in and I have
    > plenty of money to buy my own meal!

    > Similarly, vary when and where you play each trip if
    > possible. There are 3 shifts to choose from in each
    > casino! If it is big enough and the games are offered
    > equally, play in an alternative pit (casinos are just
    > like any other "workplace," in that many of
    > the same personnel are placed in the same area, day in
    > and day out) when you return on the same shift during
    > the same stay. That way the pit will only see you once
    > or twice, while you may actually be able to play 2, 4,
    > or maybe even 6 sessions in the same casino without
    > someone in the pit having a couple chances to watch
    > your advantage play. That being said, the pit is only
    > one issue--but you know that already--every black chip
    > player is watched by the eye and sometimes filmed for
    > review.

    > Another tip is to get in with a host at each place you
    > play. You can then stay at each store once or twice a
    > year, but still hit all your casinos. As long as you
    > avoid running into your host there, they will probably
    > never even know you were there.

    > One last tip--straight from Shift Manager (and
    > confirmed by many other black chippers)--if you are
    > approached about being rated, have some form of ID to
    > give them. You need to think about this before it
    > happens. Depending on the store, shift, busyness,
    > etc... you may never be approached. But if you are and
    > decline to be rated, you will be under 10X the
    > scrutiny of every other player until they make a
    > decision about you. In their thinking--NOBODY playing
    > $100+ a hand would not want to receive the comps they
    > are due playing at that level. You MUST be a cheat or
    > card counter (they are the same--don't you know?!?).
    > Search the site to find out ways to deal with this
    > issue if comps aren't an issue, or you wish to play
    > anonymously.

    > Good luck in LV. Hope I have helped in some small way.

  12. #25
    Wolverine
    Guest

    Wolverine: Black chips, yellow chips, etc...

    > Question about blackchip play? If the casinos have
    > racks with blackchips, and 500 and 1000 chips to
    > offer, why then, is it such a big deal for someone to
    > use them to play? why is there so much scrutiny if
    > someone is betting at least $100 a hand, if they are
    > welcoming you to use black chips to play? i dont'
    > understand this?

    Casinos do not like advantage players (or even solid basic strategy players that have money management skills) to play with these odd colored chips! They want GAMBLERS to play with these odd colored chips because they know that in the long run, they will beat them up and make money. They want you to BELIEVE you can earn those chips, but they don't ever expect those chips to leave the rack.

    Secondarily, the casino guards their chips very closely. Once a counterfeit chip is discovered, notice how quickly all those denominations are removed and replaced by another color/type of chip? I know of an LV casino that had EIGHT $500 chips found to be fake...replaced every $500 chip in the joint overnight. If they are going to sweat $4,000 in fakes and spend THOUSANDS to replace the chips on the floor...winning a few thousand gets them pretty concerned too. Don't ask my why...it doesn't make any sense to me when they are a multi-million (small) to multi-billion dollar (large) casino.

    So, when you are betting with the bigger chips, they are watching you, but they are also watching their dealers. A mispay with a yellow chip ($1,000) or bigger is a really big deal, where an extra red or green isn't going to change their income a whole lot. They don't know if you are in cahoots with the dealer and you'll cash out and split the "extra" money the dealer just paid you by mistake. Doing this in greens or reds is ridiculous for the jail time you are going to get, but start playing with the funny colored chips and you have a week's pay for most floor people! Suddently, the risk seems worth it to people with low moral values and nothing to lose.


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