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Thread: JB: Counting with KO

  1. #27
    Parker
    Guest

    Parker: Re: I'll let it go for now.

    I think the problem is due to your trying to make a comparison in running count mode.

    We can compare in true count mode and say that TKO TC -4 = Hi-lo TC 0, or TKO TC 0 = Hi-lo TC +4.

    We cannot do the same in running count mode because the running count in an unbalanced system behaves differently than in a balanced system.

    Suppose we have a shoe that has somehow ended up with the high and low cards distributed in a perfectly even manner throughout the shoe. If we are using Hi-lo, the running count will start at 0 and essentially stay there. Since 0 divided by anything is zero, the TC will stay at 0 throughout the shoe.

    The unbalanced count will start at -24 (IRC). Since there are 6 decks remaining to be dealt, the TC is -4. Since this is an evenly distributed shoe, the RC will increase by 4 for each deck dealt. So for example, with two decks dealt (and four decks remaining) the RC will now be -16, and the TC will be . . . (drum roll) -4! In other words, the RC will increase by 4 per deck from -24 to 0, but the TC will remain at -4 (which, as we have already established, corresponds to Hi-lo TC 0 - just what we expect in this neutral shoe).

    So, for the TC to increase, we have to see small cards coming out at a rate in excess of 4 cards per deck. However, the method of TC conversion allows for this without you having to do anything else. I think that this is what you are getting hung up on.

    BTW, don't worry about having difficulty grasping this, and don't be shy about continuing to ask. This is actually proving quite helpful to me with the book I'm writing.


  2. #28
    Praying Mantis
    Guest

    Praying Mantis: Yeah, I understand Now

    > For the disussion we are having, the IRC is
    > -24 as has been stated. What that is doing
    > is adjusting KO's pivot to zero.

    Yep, Cac set me straight...going back and rereading the thread brought it in line...thanx.

    > posted numbers on, TKO has a signifigant
    > advantage over HILO.

    That's why I probably will move to TKO; however, UBZII is very inticing.

    > KO and negative numbers are not that tough,
    > and you can avoid them. It just takes a
    > little tweaking.

    I don't find any problems with the negs but my point was that if TKO and HiLo were basically equal, why even deal with them at all? Since they obviously AREN'T equal...

    Thanks,

    PM

  3. #29
    Cacarulo
    Guest

    Cacarulo: Re: Yeah, I understand Now

    > Yep, Cac set me straight...going back and
    > rereading the thread brought it in
    > line...thanx.

    > That's why I probably will move to TKO;
    > however, UBZII is very inticing.

    The beauty of a system played in RC mode is that you don't make estimation errors. Since you can't play perfect in a TCed system I would say that in this case UBZII is a better choice. However, you have to deal with a level-2 count.

    Sincerely,
    Cac

  4. #30
    Hollywood
    Guest

    Hollywood: Re: Counting with KO

    > I took this to mean he starts with an IRC of
    > -40 and counts down, so the count is always
    > negetive but the negetive can generally be
    > disregarded unless the RC becomes extremely
    > high (some problem!)

    > JB

    You are exactly correct.

    Hollywood

  5. #31
    Don Schlesinger
    Guest

    Don Schlesinger: Twilight Zone

    > I took this to mean he starts with an IRC of

    > -40 and counts down, so the count is always

    > negative but the negative can generally be

    > disregarded unless the RC becomes extremely

    > high (some problem!)

    > You are exactly correct.

    > Hollywood

    I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone and everyone around me is on another planet. :-)

    What do you mean you start and -40 and count DOWN?? If a small card comes out, what is the count now? -41 or -39? If -39, then you're counting UP, not down! And, if you're ignoring the negative sign, then you're actually starting at +40 and counting the small cards as NEGATIVES!

    That would make you the first in history to do that. :-)

    Don

  6. #32
    Hollywood
    Guest

    Hollywood: Re: Twilight Zone

    > I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone and
    > everyone around me is on another planet. :-)

    > What do you mean you start and -40 and count
    > DOWN?? If a small card comes out, what is
    > the count now? -41 or -39? If -39, then
    > you're counting UP, not down! And, if you're
    > ignoring the negative sign, then you're
    > actually starting at +40 and counting the
    > small cards as NEGATIVES!

    > That would make you the first in history to
    > do that. :-)

    > Don

    Here goes:

    6 deck game I start at 40. If a small card comes out i'm at 39.

    At 24 is the first time I raise my bet from 1 to 2 units. And also the first time I don't hit my 16 against dealer 10.

    My 24 is the same as KO's minus 4.

    At 17 is the first time I take insurance.
    My 17 is the same as plus 3 in KO.

    At 16 almost all my other indices kick in.

    Also at 16 i'm at a 10 unit bet.

    My 16 is equivlant to KO's plus 4.

    I have an aversion to negative numbers. So with the way I set this up, I never say plus minus etc. Just count up and down.

    You know i'm a bit strange to begin with, so why would this surprise you? lol lol lol

    You must find this even more humerous, seeing as you have the personal knowledge of the big numbers I play at.

    Several hundereds of thousands of dollars in winnings, please don't tell me i'm doing it wrong.

    Hollywood

  7. #33
    Don Schlesinger
    Guest

    Don Schlesinger: One of a kind! :-)

    > Here goes:

    > 6 deck game I start at 40. If a small card
    > comes out i'm at 39.

    So, the small cards are negatives, just as I thought. You are unique! The whole world wants to see the count go up; you want to see it go down! :-)

    > At 24 is the first time I raise my bet from
    > 1 to 2 units. And also the first time I
    > don't hit my 16 against dealer 10.

    > My 24 is the same as KO's minus 4.

    > At 17 is the first time I take insurance.
    > My 17 is the same as plus 3 in KO.

    > At 16 almost all my other indices kick in.

    > Also at 16 i'm at a 10 unit bet.

    > My 16 is equivlant to KO's plus 4.

    All the rest follows from your very unusual beginning premise.

    > I have an aversion to negative numbers. So
    > with the way I set this up, I never say plus
    > minus etc. Just count up and down.

    But, you could have started at, say, +20 and counted up and down in the usual fashion, with small cards positive, no?

    > You know i'm a bit strange to begin with, so
    > why would this surprise you? lol lol lol

    I've never seen anything like it before, so it caught me off guard. Did you devise this yourself?

    > You must find this even more humorous,
    > seeing as you have the personal knowledge of
    > the big numbers I play at.

    > Several hundereds of thousands of dollars in
    > winnings, please don't tell me i'm doing it
    > wrong.

    Whatever floats your boat! It's not "wrong" -- it's just very different. Besides, you have the money to prove that it works!

    Don


  8. #34
    Hollywood
    Guest

    Hollywood: Re: One of a kind! :-)

    > So, the small cards are negatives, just as I
    > thought. You are unique! The whole world
    > wants to see the count go up; you want to
    > see it go down! :-)

    > All the rest follows from your very unusual
    > beginning premise.

    > But, you could have started at, say, +20 and
    > counted up and down in the usual fashion,
    > with small cards positive, no?

    > I've never seen anything like it before, so
    > it caught me off guard. Did you devise this
    > yourself?

    > Whatever floats your boat! It's not
    > "wrong" -- it's just very
    > different. Besides, you have the money to
    > prove that it works!

    > Don

    I was having so much trouble doing it the correct way. Besides having severe dislexia (spelled wrong) I have extremly week math skills. If you remember I graduated high school with a 67 average and much of that was from cheating.

    Funny thing was I was the fastest typist the school had ever seen to that point and they used to have me give demonstrations. Typing on an IBM electric close to 200 words a minute back then and 70 words a minute with mittens on. lol

    I only devised this myself, because conventional systems did not work. I know it's terrible Don, but it gets the job done.

    As soon as I get involved in any plus or minus situation I lose track of what i'm doing.

    So with this system, i'm merely going up and down.
    I used to start at 30, but frequently the count would get to zero which would take be back to the plus minus stuff which I had trouble with.

    So I went up to 40 and it has never happened again or at least very rarely.

    Why do you think i'm telling you for years I am your blackjack poster child. Meaning, if YOU have taken me to this level with my skills anybody can do this.

    I try to tell this to people all the time that think it's above their head.

    I'm basically a math moron, so if Schlesinger,Parker, Norm and the rest of the masteres in here can put this much money in my pocket, what can they do for the smart guys in here?

    I think alot.

    Thanking you guys in advance for all my extra cash lol

    Hollywood

  9. #35
    Don Schlesinger
    Guest

    Don Schlesinger: Re: One of a kind! :-)

    > I was having so much trouble doing it the
    > correct way. Besides having severe dislexia
    > (spelled wrong) [close! dyslexia] I have >extremely weak math skills. If you remember I >graduated high school with a 67 average and much > of that was from cheating.

    LOL!

    > Funny thing was I was the fastest typist the
    > school had ever seen to that point and they
    > used to have me give demonstrations. Typing
    > on an IBM electric close to 200 words a
    > minute back then and 70 words a minute with
    > mittens on. lol

    How did you learn to type like that?

    > I only devised this myself, because
    > conventional systems did not work. I know
    > it's terrible Don, but it gets the job done.

    It's not "terrible"; it's just unique.

    > As soon as I get involved in any plus or
    > minus situation I lose track of what i'm
    > doing.

    Then, you've done the right thing.

    > So with this system, i'm merely going up and
    > down.
    > I used to start at 30, but frequently the
    > count would get to zero which would take be
    > back to the plus minus stuff which I had
    > trouble with.

    And, you don't want to get in trouble when the count (for you) is so wonderfully low! :-)

    > So I went up to 40 and it has never happened
    > again or at least very rarely.

    Yup. +40 RCs for us mere mortals are hard to come by.

    > Why do you think i'm telling you for years I
    > am your blackjack poster child. Meaning, if
    > YOU have taken me to this level with my
    > skills anybody can do this.

    Sounds like a very good ad for a school ... or a Web site. :-)

    > I try to tell this to people all the time
    > that think it's above their head.

    > I'm basically a math moron, so if
    > Schlesinger, Parker, Norm and the rest of the
    > masters in here can put this much money in
    > my pocket, what can they do for the smart
    > guys in here?

    Well, when we ran the Blackjack Clinic over 20 years ago, we truly had people from all walks of life, and many thought they could never learn to do this, but they did. Motivation goes a long way.

    > I think a lot.

    > Thanking you guys in advance for all my
    > extra cash lol

    It certainly has been fun, no?

    Don

  10. #36
    Parker
    Guest

    Parker: Re: One of a kind! :-)

    > I was having so much trouble doing it the
    > correct way. Besides having severe dislexia
    > (spelled wrong) I have extremly week math
    > skills. If you remember I graduated high
    > school with a 67 average and much of that
    > was from cheating.

    Don't sell yourself short. You single-handedly figured out how to convert KO into something quite different that works for you. In addition, you have become adept at converting from your method to traditional KO (at least, away from the table) in order to ask questions here in a manner that we can understand, and put the answers to use.

    This takes math skills of some sort.

    Just don't ask me how to true-count your method. :-)

  11. #37
    Hollywood
    Guest

    Hollywood: Re: One of a kind! :-)

    > LOL!

    > How did you learn to type like that?

    > It's not "terrible"; it's just
    > unique.

    > Then, you've done the right thing.

    > And, you don't want to get in trouble when
    > the count (for you) is so wonderfully low!
    > :-)

    > Yup. +40 RCs for us mere mortals are hard to
    > come by.

    > Sounds like a very good ad for a school ...
    > or a Web site. :-)

    > Well, when we ran the Blackjack Clinic over
    > 20 years ago, we truly had people from all
    > walks of life, and many thought they could
    > never learn to do this, but they did.
    > Motivation goes a long way.

    > It certainly has been fun, no?

    > Don

    I started typing in Junior high. Just had a knack for it.

    The funny thing is that to get an A (senior year in HS) you only needed 50 words a minute with 4 errors. So all the guys in the neighborhood wanted to sit next to me, I would finish mine and take it out and get 2 other guys A's and the 3rd guy a B.

    Talk about responsibility. lol

    The mittens thing started in 9th grade with one of my teachers. I was already typing 130 wpm and she asked me to try it, it became quite a show.

    Go figure

    Hollywood


  12. #38
    Hollywood
    Guest

    Hollywood: Re: One of a kind! :-)

    > Don't sell yourself short. You
    > single-handedly figured out how to convert
    > KO into something quite different that works
    > for you. In addition, you have become adept
    > at converting from your method to
    > traditional KO (at least, away from the
    > table) in order to ask questions here in a
    > manner that we can understand, and put the
    > answers to use.

    > This takes math skills of some sort.

    > Just don't ask me how to true-count your
    > method. :-)

    I didn't have a choice, it was either come up with something or STOP playing. I love the game to much for that.

    True counting would be quite a challenge .

    By the way big guy, i'm waiting for the book.

    Hollywood

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